Topic: "It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothin'. I'm nowhere."

[Entity]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

[ethan]

Hello Entity, welcome to this forum. The topic has been discussed HERE. It is an interesting topic and please feel free to add your thought. 

[karind1]

that is the scene that chokes me up the most....rips right thru me.

[proulxfan]

While both our boys are excellent in that scene, Ledgers performance here makes film history IMHO.

[AnitaSmith]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

I felt that Ennis was expressing how unfulfilled his life was because he could not live in freedom with the love of his life.  Ennis was forced by society, and his own beliefs, to deny himself what he wanted the most.  Ennis lived in the "problem," while Jack existed in the solution:  that they could go to Mexico and have their own ranch; that "it could always be like this."  Jack's face in the scenes where Ennis is denying him is painful to watch and brought on my own tears.

[jackie62]

thanks folks for all the really interesting debate. i really value such depth of feeling.

love the movie in so many ways

the seen were ennis falls apart seems to me because he is sooo trapped --- no way to live wth jack and no way to live without him .
the pain is so real. ennis couldnt committ to job , family or "normal" life as he wont be able to get when he needed to and you cant committ to anything if your whole heart and soul are somewhere else.

one thought i had --- when he says he cant stand it --- does that make jack think that if he could make a second best life with some-one else -- that would help him leave ennis --and in some way give ennis peace . ofcourse it would never have worked as neither could have let the other go.

finally maybe there was a need in jack to try to live with a man -- partly to prove to ennis it could be done --- and because he had built his life on that dream.

there was no  real possibility of them ever being able to be apart ---thats the power --- force of nature. it happens all too rarely --- like jake said -- ying and yang.

[ethan]

thanks folks for all the really interesting debate. i really value such depth of feeling.

love the movie in so many ways

the seen were ennis falls apart seems to me because he is sooo trapped --- no way to live wth jack and no way to live without him .
the pain is so real. ennis couldnt committ to job , family or "normal" life as he wont be able to get when he needed to and you cant committ to anything if your whole heart and soul are somewhere else.

one thought i had --- when he says he cant stand it --- does that make jack think that if he could make a second best life with some-one else -- that would help him leave ennis --and in some way give ennis peace . ofcourse it would never have worked as neither could have let the other go.

finally maybe there was a need in jack to try to live with a man -- partly to prove to ennis it could be done --- and because he had built his life on that dream.

there was no  real possibility of them ever being able to be apart ---thats the power --- force of nature. it happens all too rarely --- like jake said -- ying and yang.

Hello jackie62, welcome to this forum. There are many posts which you will find them interesting and insightful. Thanks for the first great post. Enjoy your time here.

[BBM Obsessed]

Of course, it's retaliation to Jack's blow-up, but I also believe the truth--the realization, if you will--that he loves Jack but can't live up totally to Jack's expectations and his misery when Jack is away comes through.  Frustration on both sides led to this exchange, but I don't think Ennis really believed Jack would "quit" him, nor do I think Jack could ever "quit" Ennis.

[Allan]

I don't think Ennis really believed Jack would "quit" him, nor do I think Jack could ever "quit" Ennis.

I agree, but there's a slight difference in the wording.  Ms. Proulx says: "I wish I knew how to quit you."  With the emphasis on the "wish I knew."  He doesn't know how.  Even in this moment of terrible rage and pain, Jack knows that there is no quitting Ennis.  He can mess around with other guys... he can play around, but Ennis is his love and there's no quitting him.

Here's something that I don't think we've mentioned. The real reason for this confrontation in the first place is "creature comforts."  They're both about to hit 40 years old.  We've seen them earlier in lawn chairs!  They brough lawn chairs up to the mountains!  And then Jack gets the news that he's not going to see Ennis again until November, and he blows... he doesn't want to freeze his ass off trying to snuggle in November (don't get me wrong... I'm not suggesting that he isn't also mad about the fact that their next date is going to be about 3 months later than he'd like).  This is just another way in which we see the boys grow older without Ms. Proulx or some makeup artist drawing wrinkles on their faces.  (I'm also aware that the argument quickly moves from "creature comforts" to more serious issues.)

[merry]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

I felt that Ennis was expressing how unfulfilled his life was because he could not live in freedom with the love of his life.  Ennis was forced by society, and his own beliefs, to deny himself what he wanted the most.  Ennis lived in the "problem," while Jack existed in the solution:  that they could go to Mexico and have their own ranch; that "it could always be like this."  Jack's face in the scenes where Ennis is denying him is painful to watch and brought on my own tears.

Yeah... It was just what I was gonna say! I like your saying that "Ennis lived in the problem whereas Jack existed in the solution", it is what makes them so different, indeed. Can their love escape to tragedy this way??

Merry

[CherryCake]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

Yeah... It was just what I was gonna say! I like your saying that "Ennis lived in the problem whereas Jack existed in the solution", it is what makes them so different, indeed. Can their love escape to tragedy this way??

Merry

Yes... but remember what was said right before that... Ennis was reacting to I WISH I KNEW HOW TO QUIT YOU.  This would have been devastating thing to hear... even if was what they needed.  Ennis was hurt... hell, he was crying. This was him at his most vunerable.  The beauty of the dialogue is that Jack does not follow up with "What do you mean, explain that to me' 
So this leaves us (and the characters) to interpret how we will.  I take it  Ennis was referring to being NOWHERE and NOTHING with out Jack but yet didn't know and was too scared to commit as a couple.  At the end of that scene, Ennis says something like " honestly can't stand this anymore Jack'
oh, god. now I'm a-cryin'.

 

[Cowboy Cody]

Like an Advanced Placement level question, this scene has layers which must be uncovered. On the very surface, Ennis is somewhat admitting to Jack that if he had not come across Jack, he wouldn't be feeling the things that he has, but Cherry Cake peeled that second layer back with an astute observation that "nowhere and nhothing without Jack but didn't know and was too scared to commit as a couple"

Cherry Cake -  :D

[cybernaut]

 :'(
It is very cruel of Ennis to keep Jack, as he described aptly, twice a year on a short lease, for 20 years.
All they have is brokeback mountain. The whole scene is so explosive and very very mean.

But you can see the strain on Jack waiting and hoping. I know he is like  ... Lots of fume. Sigh!  :'(

[Cowboy Cody]

:'(
It is very cruel of Ennis to keep Jack, as he described aptly, twice a year on a short lease, for 20 years.
All they have is brokeback mountain. The whole scene is so explosive and very very mean.

But you can see the strain on Jack waiting and hoping. I know he is like  ... Lots of fume. Sigh!  :'(

To be so in love with someone and be relegated to two times a year, is a hard life. I understand Jack's need for seeking out others, although he would never love any of them. Ennis was it, and both suffered.

[cybernaut]

Cody: Do you think that Jack was considering running off with his ranch's neighbor so that he can propose an "ultimatum" to Ennis??

My heart ached when Jack said, "There are times when I...." a very long pause and finally uttered out the words, "I miss you so much".
Ennis looked and kept quiet unable to respond. Couldn't keep his macho-man attitude for very long...

[Cowboy Cody]

Cody: Do you think that Jack was considering running off with his ranch's neighbor so that he can propose an "ultimatum" to Ennis??

My heart ached when Jack said, "There are times when I...." a very long pause and finally uttered out the words, "I miss you so much".
Ennis looked and kept quiet unable to respond. Couldn't keep his macho-man attitude for very long...

I don't think he could truly carry it out. The first time he would have seen Ennis, he would have melted right back into his arms. Remember what the Dad said, He was gonna bring this other feller up  here, but like most of Jack's plans, that didn't pan out either. But through it all, Jack's Dad only mentioned Ennis. Jack used to say, Ennis Del Mar use to say... I think Jack needed a man to love him back 365/24/7, not two high altitude F**** a year.

[The Ultimate Otaku]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

I felt that Ennis was expressing how unfulfilled his life was because he could not live in freedom with the love of his life.  Ennis was forced by society, and his own beliefs, to deny himself what he wanted the most.  Ennis lived in the "problem," while Jack existed in the solution:  that they could go to Mexico and have their own ranch; that "it could always be like this."  Jack's face in the scenes where Ennis is denying him is painful to watch and brought on my own tears.

This thread makes me cry too much for me to read past this post, but...I just wanted to say, thanks for making such a lovely thread. I LOVE IT! And will most definitely come back to it later. AnitaSmith, I agree with you about how Ennis was in the problem and Jack was in the solution, unable to understand the problem, while Ennis was unable to accept that there WAS a solution at all. So sad... :'(

[francis.shim]

After the first viewing... this is when my heart breaks TWICE... once, for Jack... again, for Ennis.

The line is in Ennis' response to Jack's line:

    "I wish I knew how to quit you"

Then "Ennis stands as if heartshot , face gray and deep-lined.  Fights a silent battle, grimaces." and says

    "Then why don't you?!  Why don't you let me
     be?  It's because of you, Jack, that I'm
     like this.  I'm nothin'.  I'm nowhere."

Jack was letting off steam... frustrated at not being able to be with his one true love all the time.  Why does he have to be second to everything else in Ennis' life?  Why does he have to suffer the agonizingly long periods between their times together?  Why can't Ennis see his agony?  Why can't he be more like Ennis?  Why can't he stop loving Ennis?

All I could do was just sob when Jack finished with his "I wish I knew how to quit you"... it was torture.... but then it got worse...

Ennis heard Jack alright... and it hurt him badly.  It hurts Ennis so badly that Jack is *ALSO* hurt in all of this.  Ennis lost Alma... and now, he stands to risk losing Jack.  Hasn't he paid his dues?  Hasn't he tried to do as much as he could to "stand it"?  Hasn't he done as much as he could do?  He loves Jack and Jack loves him ... and still it isn't enough... If he has to suffer then maybe it would be better if he just let the Jack go so that his one true love won't have to suffer with him... it would be better if he was nothin' and Jack just let him be...

My heart just burst at that... Ennis was making the supreme sacrifice, he was releasing Jack, his beloved, from his obligations of love.  That was love.

Peace,
Frank

[jrfh50]

Thank you francis.shim for standing in the middle there in the scene with your heart bursting and explicating it from the middle. What you wrote is beautiful. Yes, it was a kind of release, albeit one that hurt all the way down. There's just no little notion of happiness in this scene--it's grim as can be...just like losing what matters the most feels...you cannot have that losing feeling if you don't have the tender love.

[rane99]

That line, "It's because of you Jack, that I'm like this. I'm nothing, I'm nowhere.' is the most intense for me and squeezes my heart...
for me this is the first time that Ennis is being the most painfully honest to Jack.  Ennis is telling Jack how he feels about himself.
 
If this doesnt get Heath the Oscar, i don't know what would.

[sweet_man_1]

hi i'm new here and this is my first post...

i was looking for people's take on how jack really died... i did see the oprah interview and they didn't say for sure, but i'd love to hear what others think about that if there is a thread here on this site someone could direct me to

as far as the "it's because of you i'm like this" line, it was one of the deepest moments of the film for me... i think ennis was not only admitting he was a complete mess about being gay in an oppressive culture, but also it was his way of admitting that he loved jack... yes, it came out backwards and on the face one might think it was a mean comment to say to jack, but i took it totally the opposite way, which is that ennis' love for jack was so strong that the rest of his life was such a mess... for if he didn't love jack, he may have been able to live a 'normal' life (without being in love with a man)

[ethan]

hi i'm new here and this is my first post...

i was looking for people's take on how jack really died... i did see the oprah interview and they didn't say for sure, but i'd love to hear what others think about that if there is a thread here on this site someone could direct me to

Hello sweet_man_1, thanks for your posting and welcome to this forum. Hope you enjoy your time here.

How Jack died is an interesting question and here are two topics worthing reading. Feel free to add your thought too.

How did Jack die?
Jack Twist ending

Also, there is an index with the topics for BBM movie. It can be very useful too.

Search is another tip for finding what you are looking for. The button is located on top of this page.

Again welcome!!

[Rod]

:'(
It is very cruel of Ennis to keep Jack, as he described aptly, twice a year on a short lease, for 20 years.
All they have is brokeback mountain. The whole scene is so explosive and very very mean.

But you can see the strain on Jack waiting and hoping. I know he is like  ... Lots of fume. Sigh!  :'(

I don't see it as cruel what Ennis was doing...to me to Ennis it was black and white...he loved Jack and any other man WAS NOT even a possibility...he probably wanted/needed/hoped Jack felt the same way...that is why he threatens to kill him if he finds out there are others.

[stephan]

"I'm nothin'... nowhere...."
I see it as Ennis not blaming Jack, but showing him that Jack isn't the only one making sacrifices. He already said that he used to quit his jobs in order to be with Jack - quit his jobs !!! But Jack seems to think that Ennis is ok with just two f***s a year, whereas in reality, those f***s have always been more important to Ennis than "settling down" and not being broke all the time. Ennis is nowhere because he would put his family and house and job in danger to be with Jack.

[frenchcda]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

I think you might have interpreted this the wrong way, he doe's say because of you Jack that I am like this I am nothing without you, the tone truly shows his pain,, but after he falls to his knees he says I can take it anymore, I view this as saying to Jack, that ( Jack was getting overbearing in many instances, it seemed no matter what Ennis give to Jack, it was never never enough) Ennis in is heart truly was giving the most of himself with little he'd learned, he would have easely had a roll in the hay with Jack then with the waitress, but the unfortunate circumstance dictated otherwise.

[rikcub]

How do you feel about that line?  It's like Ennis is scapegoating Jack for Ennis's woes in life.  Doesn't it sound like Ennis believes he would have been better off if he had never met Jack?  That was a total slap in the face to Jack.  My life is miserable because of YOU!

Ennis internalized all of societies expectations and rules.  Although he came across as strong and tough he was scared.  Because of that he lashed out...when leaving BBM he lashed out at Jack in his misplaced anger...in the scene you describe he again lashes out at Jack...again his misplaced anger and frustration.  Jack always had hope that things could be better...Ennis never really did...because of that I think Ennis was the more frustrated of the two....and when he lashed out in anger he lashed out at the symbol (Jack) of all his frustation and unhappiness.  Still somewhere deep inside, at the same time, I think he truly knew that Jack was also the answer...not the problem.   :-\

[ragtimecowboy]

I see this line as a statement reflecting the limbo he's been caught in between truly loving Jack, which he does, and the fear of openly loving him for the world to see. For Ennis, this is like hell because the one thing he does not want to loose is Jack's love. For only in those meetings each year is he truly happy. Jack just told him he missed him so bad he could hardly stand it.

[stephan]

Ennis's line has another meaning for me : it really does mean that Jack is the answer, as well as part of the tragedy. That is, Ennis doesn't love men in general. He loves Jack, period. That's why Jack is the answer, not the fact of having just any male lover.

[BBBOY]

Ennis internalized all of societies expectations and rules.  Although he came across as strong and tough he was scared.  Because of that he lashed out...when leaving BBM he lashed out at Jack in his misplaced anger...in the scene you describe he again lashes out at Jack...again his misplaced anger and frustration.  Jack always had hope that things could be better...Ennis never really did...because of that I think Ennis was the more frustrated of the two....and when he lashed out in anger he lashed out at the symbol (Jack) of all his frustration and unhappiness.  Still somewhere deep inside, at the same time, I think he truly knew that Jack was also the answer...not the problem.   :-

I think you are so right here. Externally Ennis is this strong tough macho guy, no room for feelings, but below the surface lies a confused and angry man who is trying to resolve his feelings. Through Jack he comes to touch his real feelings. He cries when they first part after the summer on Brokeback Mountain, he cries during their last meeting, cries again in Jack's bedroom and again has tears in the last scene with the shirts. This is a man who is in touch with his feelings, just not sure what to do with them. But, we see a change in the last scene with Alma Jr. He starts to soften, let the real world in. Ultimately this film is a message of hope I think because of that last scene.

[frenchcda]

Ennis's line has another meaning for me : it really does mean that Jack is the answer, as well as part of the tragedy. That is, Ennis doesn't love men in general. He loves Jack, period. That's why Jack is the answer, not the fact of having just any male lover.

Amen, loved this comment