Author Topic: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*  (Read 33074 times)

Offline Italian_Dude

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Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« on: Feb 05, 2006, 05:11 PM »
I don't know if there is a discussion about this somewhere, I can't find it but there probably is..

my question is in the first tent scene, the love scene..

Jack takes Ennis' hand and wraps it around him, the get up and like grab each other and look like they are about to wrestle then just stare at each other then BOOM Ennis flips Jack over and.. yeah

So was Ennis trying to act like he was straight because it seemed Ennis was trying to resist at first then Jack undid his belt and Ennis flipped him over..  so was he trying to resist his sexual urges?? and was the *flip* just like a moment of passion, like uncontrolable when he just let his fears of his feelings go and just allowed himself to go with it??

what do you think?
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #1 on: Feb 05, 2006, 05:25 PM »
I don't know if there is a discussion about this somewhere, I can't find it but there probably is..

my question is in the first tent scene, the love scene..

Jack takes Ennis' hand and wraps it around him...,

I think it's not so much that Jack took Ennis's hand and wrap it around him... I think If that's all that Jack did, Ennis would have slept the whole night with him arm around Jack without a problem... but.. Jack took Ennis' hand and place it on... um, on his most private of areas... this was a shock to drunk Ennis.  Not really knowing what Jack had in mind, Ennis did what he felt more comfortable...nothing he'd ever done before but no instruction manual needed.
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Offline rikcub

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #2 on: Feb 05, 2006, 06:13 PM »
I don't know if there is a discussion about this somewhere, I can't find it but there probably is..

my question is in the first tent scene, the love scene..

Jack takes Ennis' hand and wraps it around him, the get up and like grab each other and look like they are about to wrestle then just stare at each other then BOOM Ennis flips Jack over and.. yeah

So was Ennis trying to act like he was straight because it seemed Ennis was trying to resist at first then Jack undid his belt and Ennis flipped him over..  so was he trying to resist his sexual urges?? and was the *flip* just like a moment of passion, like uncontrolable when he just let his fears of his feelings go and just allowed himself to go with it??

what do you think?


I don't think Ennis was acting anything...he was so confused by his attraction to Jack but at the same time couldn't deny it.  I also think that at that moment he was just drunk enough to let his fears and doubts go and act on his desires. 

CritterSitterGrl

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #3 on: Feb 05, 2006, 08:12 PM »
I don't know if there is a discussion about this somewhere, I can't find it but there probably is..

my question is in the first tent scene, the love scene..

Jack takes Ennis' hand and wraps it around him...,

I think it's not so much that Jack took Ennis's hand and wrap it around him... I think If that's all that Jack did, Ennis would have slept the whole night with him arm around Jack without a problem... but.. Jack took Ennis' hand and place it on... um, on his most private of areas... this was a shock to drunk Ennis.  Not really knowing what Jack had in mind, Ennis did what he felt more comfortable...nothing he'd ever done before but no instruction manual needed.

When Jack takes Ennis' hand, he doesn't put it on his groin, he puts it on his lower stomach. Ennis doesn't pull his hand away immediately, either, which he would have if Jack had put it on his groin. I think Ennis was just so used to sleeping like that with Alma that, at first, he didn't think anything of it, but then it registered that he wasn't with Alma, and then he yanked his hand away.

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #4 on: Feb 05, 2006, 08:22 PM »
If by stomach you mean penis..ok.  Check screenplay and short story. Youza.
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #5 on: Feb 05, 2006, 11:19 PM »
I don't know if there is a discussion about this somewhere, I can't find it but there probably is..

my question is in the first tent scene, the love scene..

Jack takes Ennis' hand and wraps it around him...,

I think it's not so much that Jack took Ennis's hand and wrap it around him... I think If that's all that Jack did, Ennis would have slept the whole night with him arm around Jack without a problem... but.. Jack took Ennis' hand and place it on... um, on his most private of areas... this was a shock to drunk Ennis.  Not really knowing what Jack had in mind, Ennis did what he felt more comfortable...nothing he'd ever done before but no instruction manual needed.

When Jack takes Ennis' hand, he doesn't put it on his groin, he puts it on his lower stomach. Ennis doesn't pull his hand away immediately, either, which he would have if Jack had put it on his groin. I think Ennis was just so used to sleeping like that with Alma that, at first, he didn't think anything of it, but then it registered that he wasn't with Alma, and then he yanked his hand away.

According to the story, Jack  took Ennis' hand and put it on his c**k.  Of course we can't see this on-screen.  This would have elicited that reaction from Ennis.  Ennis' reaction was delayed because he was half-asleep and still drunk.  Once he realized where his hand was... well....
« Last Edit: Feb 05, 2006, 11:25 PM by CherryCake »
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Offline camom

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #6 on: Feb 06, 2006, 12:54 AM »
Also, isn't there an implication that Ennis is a virgin in the scene where he tells Jack, "You may be a sinner, but I ain't had the opportunity yet"?  What do all of you think?  Maybe Alma was a very chaste girl!

I'd say Ennis' reaction was definitely delayed due to sleepiness and alcohol.  BTW, Critter Sitter Girl, the first time I saw the movie I thought Jack just put Ennis' arm around him.  Then I read the short story, and no, the hand went lower down.  If you watch the movie again, you'll see Jack take the hand, pull it around him, and then push it down.

camom

Offline Italian_Dude

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #7 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:18 PM »
yeah i understand that but when Ennis and Jack sit up and Jack took off his coat.. they just kind of look at each other .. and Ennis looks.. i dont know, his expression i dont know what to think of it..it seemed odd?? I don't know.. he seemed almost angry!? does anyone know what im talking about? haha, like their grabbing each other like it looks like he's about to punch him but intead he flips him over.. i dont understand why he acted that way..?? ahah
You and me together
Through the days and nights
I don't worry 'cause
Everything's gonna be all right
People keep talking
They can say what they like
But all I know is everything's gonna be all right..

Offline Italian_Dude

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #8 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:47 PM »
they're*
You and me together
Through the days and nights
I don't worry 'cause
Everything's gonna be all right
People keep talking
They can say what they like
But all I know is everything's gonna be all right..

Offline lowpro

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #9 on: Feb 09, 2006, 11:48 PM »
yeah i understand that but when Ennis and Jack sit up and Jack took off his coat.. they just kind of look at each other .. and Ennis looks.. i dont know, his expression i dont know what to think of it..it seemed odd?? I don't know.. he seemed almost angry!? does anyone know what im talking about? haha, like their grabbing each other like it looks like he's about to punch him but intead he flips him over.. i dont understand why he acted that way..?? ahah

Ennis I believe mumbles three syllables befor e the flip: What are they?

Offline Allan

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #10 on: Feb 10, 2006, 12:24 PM »
y i dont understand why he acted that way..??

He wants to run (he's seen what happens to "queers')?  But he wants to stay (Whether he can name it or not, by this time he is in love with Jack.  This is the reason he got drunk... just so he could be intimate with Jack and then say "Gee, was I drunk last night!" the next morning.  Of course, the next morning finds him speechless)?  Two things about Ennis that 1st night are pretty sure (especially in the story):

1) He's not interested in foreplay.
2) He's already turned on before Jack grabs his hand (He's oozing "clear slick," which is not an instantaneous reaction.).

Allan

Offline scruffy

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #11 on: Feb 10, 2006, 03:23 PM »
If Ennis is turned on by Jack before they actually have sex I doubt he would have understood it.  The actual scene in the tent, to me, seems like years of pent up sexual frustration on Ennis' part.  He gets it all out on one fast, rough and tumble session.  The one thing that I found interesting is that at one brief point in all the grunting one of them sounds mysteriously like a sheep.

Offline alicat

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #12 on: Feb 10, 2006, 03:50 PM »
>>>The one thing that I found interesting is that at one brief point in all the grunting one of them sounds mysteriously like a sheep.

lol - no, i'm sure no sheep were involved at that point lol.  Although maybe one of those darn sheep did wander into the tent during the night ;-)
Did your folks stop at Ennis?

tweric

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #13 on: Feb 10, 2006, 08:25 PM »
.....
I'd say Ennis' reaction was definitely delayed due to sleepiness and alcohol.  BTW, Critter Sitter Girl, the first time I saw the movie I thought Jack just put Ennis' arm around him.  Then I read the short story, and no, the hand went lower down.  If you watch the movie again, you'll see Jack take the hand, pull it around him, and then push it down.
...

Yeah, the first time I saw the movie, I thought Jack was putting Ennis's arm around him. So I was kinda appalled as in why Ennis got so scared and jerked his hand away like that.

But I still missed the "then push it down" part in my 2nd and 3rd viewing.... darn... 4th viewing?  :P

Offline CakeSaint

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #14 on: Feb 10, 2006, 08:54 PM »
yeah i understand that but when Ennis and Jack sit up and Jack took off his coat.. they just kind of look at each other .. and Ennis looks.. i dont know, his expression i dont know what to think of it..it seemed odd?? I don't know.. he seemed almost angry!? does anyone know what im talking about? haha, like their grabbing each other like it looks like he's about to punch him but intead he flips him over.. i dont understand why he acted that way..?? ahah

Ennis I believe mumbles three syllables befor e the flip: What are they?

Ennis says, very quietly, "Long as you're on..." and I'm absolutely sure that the next unspoken word is meant to be "bottom."  That's the way it turns out, anyway.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006, 09:15 PM by CakeSaint »

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #15 on: Feb 10, 2006, 10:51 PM »
When does he say that(long as your on)? While he is trying to wake up, he does ask Jack what are you doing? Thats all I hear. (10 times viewing)
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Offline jrfh50

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #16 on: Feb 11, 2006, 12:20 AM »
yeah i understand that but when Ennis and Jack sit up and Jack took off his coat.. they just kind of look at each other .. and Ennis looks.. i dont know, his expression i dont know what to think of it..it seemed odd?? I don't know.. he seemed almost angry!? does anyone know what im talking about? haha, like their grabbing each other like it looks like he's about to punch him but intead he flips him over.. i dont understand why he acted that way..?? ahah

Ennis I believe mumbles three syllables befor e the flip: What are they?

I believe Ennis says: "What're you doin'?" He mumbles it like a drunk and somewhat disoriented just awakened fellow might say it.
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Offline frenchcda

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #17 on: Feb 11, 2006, 03:52 AM »
From the words of Annie Proulx: " Jesus Christ, quit hammerin and get over here. Bedroll's big enough", said Jack in an irritable sleep-clogged voice. It was big enough, warm enough, and in a little while they deepened their intamicy considerably. Ennis ran full-throlle on all roads whether fence mending or money spending, and he wantd none of it when Jack seized his left hand and brought it to his erect c*ck. Ennis jecrked his hand away as though he'd touched fire, got on his knees, unbuckled his belt, shoved his pants down, hauled Jack onto all fours and, with the help of the clear slick and a little spit, entered him, nothing he'd done before but no instruction needed, they went at it in silence except for a few sharp intakes of breath and Jack's choked " gun's goimg off", them out, down , and asleep.
  Ennis woke in the red dawn with his pants around his knees, a top grade headache, adn Jack butted against him; without saying anything about it both knew how it would go for teh rest of the summer, sheep be damned.


" maybe this little chapter from the short story can aleviate some concerns as whether it was just a one time thing or not, read very carefully and you can make your own judgement."

Note: another passage about Jack and Ennis: They beleive themselves invisible, not knowing Joe Aguirre had watched them through his 10X42 binoculars for ten minutes one day, waiting until they buttonned up their jeans, waiting until Ennis rode back to the sheep, before bringing up the message that Jack's people had send words that his uncle Harold was in the hospital with pneumonia and expected not to make it.

the scene in the tent you see in the movie was to show that Jack and Ennis did take it futher than one might have thought, the movie also wanted to honor some of the moments of what occured in the motel as in the short story as it is in the the storyline its most important part that differs in the movie, so they in some manner created the scene in the Tent, the kiss and their fondness for each other. for what occurs in the motel told by Annie Proulx would have been too riske in the movie, so it was tamed down by rendering the tent scene. make your own conclusion, as for me it honored the wishes of the writer, for she approved.
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Offline CakeSaint

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #18 on: Feb 11, 2006, 08:01 AM »
When does he say that(long as your on)? While he is trying to wake up, he does ask Jack what are you doing? Thats all I hear. (10 times viewing)

Right after Jack gets his coat off.  I don't hear him say "What are you doing?" though.  It's possible that there have been dialogue substitutions/edits -- I'm seeing this in the awards screener version.  I only saw it once in the theater, and don't remember if it was the same then.

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #19 on: Feb 11, 2006, 08:09 AM »
Ennis mumbles what are you doin'? It is in the screenplay.
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Offline bram

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #20 on: Feb 11, 2006, 09:43 AM »
Yeah, I heard, "What are ya doin'?"
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #21 on: Feb 11, 2006, 12:20 PM »
Yeah, I heard, "What are ya doin'?"

ditto
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Offline CakeSaint

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #22 on: Feb 11, 2006, 06:31 PM »
Yeah, I heard, "What are ya doin'?"

ditto

Is there anyone else out there who has the screener version who can back me up on this?  I just watched it again, and it's pretty clear in that scene that he says, "Long as you're on..." right after Jack takes off his coat.  Am I completely crazy or do I have a version of the movie that no one else has seen??  I know what it says in the screenplay, but it doesn't match up to my ears.

tweric

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #23 on: Feb 12, 2006, 12:33 PM »
In the movie, Heath was really "mumbling" when he said this sentence, so it's possible we hear different things.

I downloaded a "caption" file and it's "What are we doin'?", but I don't think this file is from an official source because I found some discrepancies in it. But, at least someone listened to ...whatever it was and "typed" all the captions.

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #24 on: Feb 12, 2006, 09:24 PM »
Ennis definately say's "what're doing?"
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Offline Italian_Dude

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #25 on: Feb 13, 2006, 11:12 AM »
oh my god what the hell does he say??

i just listened to it .. honestly i can't tell either way, but to me it sounded way more like 'as long as your on' or something with the word long.. it didnt sound like 'what're you doing' at all.. and this is the thing he says right after jack taked off his jacket correct? he mumbles something, to me it sounds nothing like 'what're we/you doing' , like i said i have no idea but it sounds more like the 'as long as your on'
« Last Edit: Feb 13, 2006, 11:16 AM by Merags »
You and me together
Through the days and nights
I don't worry 'cause
Everything's gonna be all right
People keep talking
They can say what they like
But all I know is everything's gonna be all right..

Offline jimmypage

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #26 on: Feb 13, 2006, 05:11 PM »
Ennis definately say's "what're doing?"
A rhetorical question.

Offline chameau

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #27 on: Feb 13, 2006, 06:04 PM »
Friends, very interesting topic, thanks for all your postings...

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Offline CakeSaint

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #28 on: Feb 13, 2006, 06:34 PM »
oh my god what the hell does he say??

i just listened to it .. honestly i can't tell either way, but to me it sounded way more like 'as long as your on' or something with the word long.. it didnt sound like 'what're you doing' at all.. and this is the thing he says right after jack taked off his jacket correct? he mumbles something, to me it sounds nothing like 'what're we/you doing' , like i said i have no idea but it sounds more like the 'as long as your on'

thank you thank you merags!  i'm not totally insane or hearing things!   ;D

Offline justlikethisalways

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Re: Meaning of The Love Scene *Spoiler*
« Reply #29 on: Feb 13, 2006, 10:48 PM »
Each time (6 times total) I heard "What're you doin'?"
I have the screenplay, and in it Ennis says "What are you doin'?".
But Heath slurred the words, maybe this is the cause of all the confusion...   ???