Topic: stray nail polish and other details - possible spoilers

[tpe]

This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.

In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film. 

One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story). 

Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death). 

I am not so sure if this detail has any significance.  Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?

Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...

[stationbbm]

This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.

In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film. 

One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story). 

Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death). 

I am not so sure if this detail has any significance.  Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?

Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way...

TPE:  Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room.  Everything seems soooooooo empty.  Symbolic of Jack's life with his family.  Simple.  Stoic.  Plain.

stationbbm

[tpe]

TPE:  Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room.  Everything seems soooooooo empty.  Symbolic of Jack's life with his family.  Simple.  Stoic.  Plain.

stationbbm

Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10.  Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it.  I tried to focus on the different objects in the room, particularly on his desk.

You remember the small toy showing a figure (cowboy?) on a horse that Ennis picks up while in Jack's room?  It reminded me of the figure of the horse that Ennis was shown carving in an early scene up on Brokeback mountain...

[natalia]

TPE:  Something that stays with me is the emptiness in Jack's parents' home....their spirits seemed empty and then when the camera pans across the house, moving upstairs and even into Jack's room.  Everything seems soooooooo empty.  Symbolic of Jack's life with his family.  Simple.  Stoic.  Plain.

stationbbm

Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10.  Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it.  I tried to focus on the different objects in the room, particularly on his desk.

You remember the small toy showing a figure (cowboy?) on a horse that Ennis picks up while in Jack's room?  It reminded me of the figure of the horse that Ennis was shown carving in an early scene up on Brokeback mountain...

I noticed that too! I even wondered if it was the horse that Ennis had carved on the mountain

[tpe]

I noticed that too! I even wondered if it was the horse that Ennis had carved on the mountain

Hi natalia.  Yes, that was what I was wondering myself.  Good to know that I'm not the only one making these associations! 

There is another scene that I still have not figured out.

Remember the 4th of July (?) fireworks scene?  Right after Ennis mauls the two obnoxious visitors (bikers? -- I should check the screenplay!)  Ennis stands and poses against the backdrop of exploding fireworks and freezes in this stance for a split second.

I am sure this is a reference to something -- another movie?  I should look carefully at the screenplay to see if it gives any notes about this.  If any of you knows anything about this, go ahead and post it.

I know of a number of directions in the screenplay that references other actors and movies.  The one I remember the most is the scene when Ennis is throwing out hay to the cattle from the back of a truck.  The screenplay says that Ennis should look something like James Dean in 'Giant'!   

[waterwalkingjesus]

I thought the stray nail polish on Lureen's finger was a cut of some sort and didn't think anything of it.

[CoyotePiper]

Yeah, I noticed the stray finger nail polish too. Such a small detail and yet many have noticed it.

Plus the little squeaks that Lureen makes during the call, and of course the water welling in her eyes, not quite tears.

And did it seem like she slammed the phone down not hung up normally?

[tpe]

And did it seem like she slammed the phone down not hung up normally?

Yes, this is an interesting detail.  The screenplay says that Lureen is polite but 'cold' to Ennis thoughout the phone conversation.  This slamming down the phone suggested in my mind that she was also angry -- perhaps she knew?  Or perhaps she realized it then?

[CoyotePiper]

I think she had a Eureka moment when Ennis said "We herded sheep up on Brokeback in'63".

Jack had never told her why BB was his favorite place, just that it was, she thought it was his "pretend place"

Now suddenly she is speaking with Ennis, Jack's bud from all these years who tells her why BB is so important and just why he wants his ashes on the mountain. She realizes just who she is talking to here. Notice the wetness start in her eyes and the little noises she makes.

[tpe]

I think she had a Eureka moment when Ennis said "We herded sheep up on Brokeback in'63".

Jack had never told her why BB was his favorite place, just that it was, she thought it was his "pretend place"

Now suddenly she is speaking with Ennis, Jack's bud from all these years who tells her why BB is so important and just why he wants his ashes on the mountain. She realizes just who she is talking to here. Notice the wetness start in her eyes and the little noises she makes.

Yes, it is hard for her not to know at that point, given that Brokeback was Jack's favorite place, his fishing trips with Ennis, and his wish that his ashes be scattered 'where bluebirds sing and there's a whisky spring'.  When Ennis said that they herded sheep on Brokeback in 63, it must have been a eureka moment, no doubt about it.

[CoyotePiper]

Yes, that house is 'American Gothic' times 10.  Jack's room is indeed the most haunting part of it.

Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Ennis. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...

He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them  as his hand was guided.

Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.



*Edit* Oops changed "like someone there is watching "Jack" to "Ennis"

[tpe]

Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Jack. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...

He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them  as his hand was guided.

Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.

CoyotePiper, this is a truly wonderful viewpoint.

I myself was not so sure why the entire scene involving Jack's closet invariably sent shivers down my spine.  It is precisely because you feel Jack's presence all throughout.

In the beginning, one is not sure if Jack's 'presence' is of a 'malevolent' nature.  It is only when Ennis discovers the shirts, holds them up close, and inhales on them that you finally get the assurance that THAT presence is the presence of an ENDURING and CONSTANT love.

[stationbbm]

Haunting indeed, I got the feeling that Jack's ghost was calling from the closet. The camera suddenly takes the view from WITHIN the closet, like someone there is watching Jack. Ennis looks up startled from his introspection and stares at the closet door. Somehow he has just been summoned...

He walks in (is pulled in?) and starts touching everything. Then finds the shirts hidden there all these years. He was meant to find them  as his hand was guided.

Notice the "death music" which plays here? not on the soundtrack but accompanies moments of death in the film.

CoyotePiper, this is a truly wonderful viewpoint.

I myself was not so sure why the entire scene involving Jack's closet invariably sent shivers down my spine.  It is precisely because you feel Jack's presence all throughout.

In the beginning, one is not sure if Jack's 'presence' is of a 'malevolent' nature.  It is only when Ennis discovers the shirts, holds them up close, and inhales on them that you finally get the assurance that THAT presence is the presence of an ENDURING and CONSTANT love.

This is great, great insight...Never even occurred to me...tells me how intentional the director is on every single shot in creating the effect he's wanting to achieve.  Great post.

[*Froggy*]

Did anyone else notice how she (the mother) touches the shirt as she puts it in the bag?

As if she knows it is the last time she'll see it & Ennis!   :'(

[jimnick]

It's all in the shirt(s), and yes, I think she (Mom) knows all.....

Jim

[CoyotePiper]

And did you notice how the mother sort of chokes herself as the old man says "we got a family plot and he's goin' in it."?

And after all these years Ennis and Jack are really an old married couple. The mother knows this and she likes Ennis who she has just met. Ennis is Jack's choice and mom likes Ennis. This is her son in law. She wants Ennis around I feel.

Just because Jack is gone, doesn't mean the people important in Jack's life must go to. I had a brother in law die 2 years ago. My BIL's family are still important to my sister (and me) even though he's gone. Same with Jack and his 'spouse' with Jack's mom. This is why she says "come back and see us again"

...another observation. Did you notice when Ennis said " I'd be happy to take his ashes up to BB like his wife said he wanted..." at this point the mother looks directly at the old man for his decision. The mom wants the ashes up there. She  is defering to the husband however. She is not going to go against her husbands will. She knows its wrong but shuts up. She lets the men handle this.

[tpe]

And did you notice how the mother sort of chokes herself as the old man says "we got a family plot and he's goin' in it."?

And after all these years Ennis and Jack are really an old married couple. The mother knows this and she likes Ennis who she has just met. Ennis is Jack's choice and mom likes Ennis. This is her son in law. She wants Ennis around I feel.

Just because Jack is gone, doesn't mean the people important in Jack's life must go to. I had a brother in law die 2 years ago. My BIL's family are still important to my sister (and me) even though he's gone. Same with Jack and his 'spouse' with Jack's mom. This is why she says "come back and see us again"

...another observation. Did you notice when Ennis said " I'd be happy to take his ashes up to BB like his wife said he wanted..." at this point the mother looks directly at the old man for his decision. The mom wants the ashes up there. She  is defering to the husband however. She is not going to go against her husbands will. She knows its wrong but shuts up. She lets the men handle this.

In the screenplay, it is stated that the mother was never really a part of her husband's life.  When she said 'You come again and see us' [my paraphrase], it is said that she says this out of heartfelt sympathy for Ennis.  It was clear that Jack loved his mother ('My mama, she believes in the Pentecost')  She probably accepted Jack for who he was.

Jack's mother was portrayed with deep feeling.  Very rarely do you get films that all the small parts are true cameos -- cinematic gems that can stand alone and be appreciated for beauty and veracity...

[manila_rocks]

I think the stray nail polish may be related to the lack of "nail bars" in Texas during that time period.   She may have been biting her nails due to her existential angst over the loss of a husband under such circumstances.

[*Froggy*]

True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side.  (wonder what the significance of 17 is)

I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park,  but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!

Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?

Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!

What do you think?

[natalia]

True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side.  (wonder what the significance of 17 is)

I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park,  but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!

Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?

Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!

What do you think?

That's a good interpretation and I'm pretty sure that's the effect that they were going for with the whole mailbox/numbers sequence.
I wonder too though if it also meant that Ennis is ready to start recieving mail again... he puts the numbers on a mailbox, which means he has an actual adress where people can send him letters (all of Jack and Ennis' long distance communication was done through the mail) and maybe he's finally ready to make contact with the world again after shutting himself off from it when he learned of Jack's death

[jimnick]

True the numbers on the mailbox are presumably still there as the subsequent shot s are from the other side.  (wonder what the significance of 17 is)

I believe that it means that finally Ennis has chosen to settle down somewhere...okay yes it is a trailer park,  but putting numbers means that he belongs somewhere!

Remeber reading in the short story that he prefered the small flat coz it meant that they could move quickly if needed... or that it took Jack ages to find out where he had moved to after the divorce?

Well now it's sorted he lives at number 17!

What do you think?

That's a good interpretation and I'm pretty sure that's the effect that they were going for with the whole mailbox/numbers sequence.
I wonder too though if it also meant that Ennis is ready to start recieving mail again... he puts the numbers on a mailbox, which means he has an actual adress where people can send him letters (all of Jack and Ennis' long distance communication was done through the mail) and maybe he's finally ready to make contact with the world again after shutting himself off from it when he learned of Jack's death

Well... OK.  Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but,  In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs.  So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days.  The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...

Jim

[*Froggy*]

Well... OK.  Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but,  In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs.  So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days.  The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...

Jim

We do not know how long ago Ennis died at the beginning of the short story...plus it states that his daughter is already married...In the movie at the end she has only just told her dad she will be getting married on June the 5th...and i doubt that at 19, her boyfriend already owns a ranch?!!!

He will be moving out..eventually...apart from Summer 1963..20years relationship...Jack's age when he dies, and May 1983 when Jack's FIL dies..we do not know anything about time nor dates!

[jimnick]

Well... OK.  Hopefully Ennis will not live out the remainder of his years (40+) alone but,  In the book, the very first paragraphs speak about his sweet dreams of Jack Twist, and the facts that the ranch he is working on is closing down and that he is comtemplating moving in with his married daughter for a while until he finds new work and new digs.  So why would he be putting numbers on a mailbox that he is moving from within days.  The book makes it sound as though he is moving out that very morning...

Jim

We do not know how long ago Ennis died at the beginning of the short story...plus it states that his daughter is already married...In the movie at the end she has only just told her dad she will be getting married on June the 5th...and i doubt that at 19, her boyfriend already owns a ranch?!!!

He will be moving out..eventually...apart from Summer 1963..20years relationship...Jack's age when he dies, and May 1983 when Jack's FIL dies..we do not know anything about time nor dates!

Ennis died?  Who says her boyfriend owns a ranch?

[*Froggy*]

 :-[ oops..i meant Jack...sorry

It says in the presentation of BBM (short story)that Alma Jr lives on a ranch with her husband!

[jimnick]

:-[ oops..i meant Jack...sorry

It says in the presentation of BBM (short story)

Thank you!!!  I was about ready to go out and hang myself!

Jim

[*Froggy*]

Thank you!!!  I was about ready to go out and hang myself!

Jim

Oh no...i'm so sorry i did not proof read!............It says in the presentation of BBM (short story) that Alma Jr lives on a ranch with her husband!

[sharve]

This thread is devoted to all those small details in the film that may or may not have any significance.

In her essay that accompanied the screenplay, Proulx said that she admired the small details scattered throughout the film. 

One was Jack's paunch that developed subtly over the course of the film (as indicated in the original short story). 

Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death). 

I am not so sure if this detail has any significance.  Is it supposed to reflect something about Lureen's state of mind after Jack's death?

Please feel free to bring up any other details that you think may be significant in some way

One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.

Another thing. I don't think Lureen cared much for Jack. He was just there, like a dog or a cat about the house. So why would she lie to Ennis about his death. She had never met Ennis, probable never would, and he certainly was no threat to her, so why lie? Did she really know what happened? She most certainly did, she was an affluent and respected member of her community after all.

what do you think

[*Froggy*]

One thing. Have any of you ever wondered why Jack married Lureen in the first place? They had nothing in common and she certainly could have had a better pick within her daddy's community. Could it be that she got pregnant in the back seat of her daddy's car that first night they met? Hmmm... it would for sure give her daddy a good reason to hate him.

Another thing. I don't think Lureen cared much for Jack. He was just there, like a dog or a cat about the house. So why would she lie to Ennis about his death. She had never met Ennis, probable never would, and he certainly was no threat to her, so why lie? Did she really know what happened? She most certainly did, she was an affluent and respected member of her community after all.

what do you think

Lureen was 19 when she met and married Jack,  i guess she also wanted to escape her Daddy!
Pregnant? Why not, good thinking...coz one thing the short story is laking, is details on time span!

I personally believe that Lureen did love Jack...we (women) tend to love the wrong guys from time to time  !
I also believe that she knew who Ennis was and what he meant to Jack..why did she lie? well the $1,000,000 question is whethere or not she lied!

[Fleur]

'Another detail in the film that Proulx said she admired was the small red mark of stray nail polish on Lureen's finger (visible during the phone conversation with Ennis about Jack's death).' 

Could it be symbolism for 'blood on her hands, 'if' and I mean 'if' her father had been involved in Jack's death? I perosnally am not convinced that he was however... just a thought ...

[/color]

[*Froggy*]

Could it be symbolism for 'blood on her hands, 'if' and I mean 'if' her father had been involved in Jack's death? I personally am not convinced that he was however... just a thought ...

[/color]

Lureen's dad died before may 1983! Was dead months before Jack.

Blood on her hands..hummm...not sure.

I just assumed that she did not have time to get her fake nails fixed...after all her husband was dead, and she had a company to look after...