Author Topic: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...  (Read 9918 times)

vedrana

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...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« on: Dec 04, 2008, 05:26 PM »
This line from SS wasn't introduced in the movie, but I am curious about Ennis's mind. After departing from Jack in 1963. it took him a year to figure out that his gut cramps were because of Jack, and that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sight. Even so, he remains in his shell. First excuse is Alma&kids which I can completely accept... even it was obvious that life with Alma was far away from his ideal life, but he felt responsible, he felt he had a duty to stay with his family and that I can accept. But when his fragile marriage fell apart, he still refused Jack's offer for their life together, somewhere, anywhere...

One year of gut crimps were not enough for him to realise who he should be with and what is the only "sweet life" for him?

Why on earth he mentioned staying with Jack in that motel room if obviously he always manage to find a way out of that? First was Alma, later his childhood fear... but all this reasons were there at the very moment he mentioned the possibility to stay with Jack. Even so, he said it! And this words are not just some babbling. This words have a significant importance! But... they never come true! IMO, there's no visible reason for Ennis to develop such a fear towards Life with Jack.

Is there any condition that would have satisfied Ennis and help him decide about "sweet life" with Jack?

 :s)

 

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #1 on: Dec 09, 2008, 03:46 AM »
Dear Loreen,
I really feel that childhood fears can have a major impact on the people we become...Ennis childhood experiences left a scar in his mind which followed him his whole life..After the 4 year reunion when Jack suggested to Ennis to live together it was his fears that stopped him..we can see how guarded Ennis got with that idea and we can also see that Jack understood why he got so guarded…that's how much Jack empathized with him…..Ennis was scared to be killed and to be looked down upon by his kids and the society at large..I know even after he divorced Alma, Jack was so happy as that brought hope for Ennis to live with Jack but Ennis dint want that too..Perhaps the fear of becoming an object of embarrassment and humiliation prevented..I feel sorry for Ennis as he could not follow his heart even if he wanted to… its just that he was not able to bring his strenght out and risk it all for love…I feel sorry for Jack as his dreams were shattered so many times...   :\'( :\'(

vedrana

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #2 on: Dec 09, 2008, 04:37 AM »
Dear Loreen,
I really feel that childhood fears can have a major impact on the people we become...Ennis childhood experiences left a scar in his mind which followed him his whole life..After the 4 year reunion when Jack suggested to Ennis to live together it was his fears that stopped him..we can see how guarded Ennis got with that idea and we can also see that Jack understood why he got so guarded…that's how much Jack empathized with him…..Ennis was scared to be killed and to be looked down upon by his kids and the society at large..I know even after he divorced Alma, Jack was so happy as that brought hope for Ennis to live with Jack but Ennis dint want that too..Perhaps the fear of becoming an object of embarrassment and humiliation prevented..I feel sorry for Ennis as he could not follow his heart even if he wanted to… its just that he was not able to bring his strenght out and risk it all for love…I feel sorry for Jack as his dreams were shattered so many times...   :\'( :\'(


Dear Cleo, ^f^

I was thinking about this question after I posted this.

I have a feeling that these Ennis's words ( I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...) are just an expression of his deep wish. Nothing more.

At the moment when his "little darling" was in his arm after 4 years of emptiness, he spoke out something that he wanted more than anything in the world, but wasn't really capable of doing it. He could've never reach to the point to decide to live with Jack. Deep in his heart he knew that only with Jack he could have a "sweet life", but the obstacles were too much for the person like him.

So, after his fantastic explosion in the reunion kiss, he could say anything. He could reach the stars in the heaven.

These words along with the kiss were an expression of wellcome, a sign of his good will and regret after punching Jack, it was an expression of his deepest needs, of his loneliness without Jack, and most of all - of his deep love. Period.

Because when it really came to the point when he should've taken some serious steps, break bonds with others, and start a whole new life, he just pulled back.

There's no other explanation, IMO.

 :^^)




Offline smartestsonia

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #3 on: Dec 10, 2008, 08:28 AM »
Dear Cleo, ^f^

I was thinking about this question after I posted this.

I have a feeling that these Ennis's words ( I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...) are just an expression of his deep wish. Nothing more.

At the moment when his "little darling" was in his arm after 4 years of emptiness, he spoke out something that he wanted more than anything in the world, but wasn't really capable of doing it. He could've never reach to the point to decide to live with Jack. Deep in his heart he knew that only with Jack he could have a "sweet life", but the obstacles were too much for the person like him.

So, after his fantastic explosion in the reunion kiss, he could say anything. He could reach the stars in the heaven.

These words along with the kiss were an expression of wellcome, a sign of his good will and regret after punching Jack, it was an expression of his deepest needs, of his loneliness without Jack, and most of all - of his deep love. Period.

Because when it really came to the point when he should've taken some serious steps, break bonds with others, and start a whole new life, he just pulled back.

There's no other explanation, IMO.

 :^^)




In 1963 when their relationship developed Ennis did not want to live with Jack due to his own fears…And later he felt that he should not have let him go …It made him miserable …He knew that Jack completed him and he needed him and as u said that when he was married to Alma he had a commitment so he could not follow his heart…After his divorce I also can understand that we all wished Ennis to just follow his heart and live with Jack...That was an opportunity that Ennis missed…IMO he missed it because his fears overtook his love...its breaks my heart to say this but Ennis just could not get the strength to do that..  :\'(

As mentioned Ennis dint want to leave Jack’s side and his fears were there with him all throughout his childhood and even when he wished that he should not have let him out of his sight...Ya, his fears were somewhere present always…Then why did not accept a life with Jack ?…IMO it was so as his fear dominated the most of him…It was a constant struggle between his wishes and fears and even though he expressed his wishes or atleast knew his wishes, his fears would come and take a grip over him once again...it was constantly there and it would take over his wishes...As we all know Ennis felt strongly for Jack and knew that Jack completed his life but on the other hand when the opportunity came to him as he was divorced to live with Jack, I feel all his childhood fears which were always there came more to life and Ennis just could not make himself live with Jack…This is too hard as we all want Ennis to just follow his heart and live his life with the one he truly loves but he dint do it inspite of the fact that he wanted it so badly himself…that’s a huge conflict in Ennis mind which was with him his whole life.. Even today there r people who fear to come out due to rejection and embarrassment from the society and their family...So during the 1960’s it was even worse to the extent of being killed and imagine being as a child when someone is exposed to that like Ennis he grows up with that strong fear of death…This fear is something which never left Ennis side...And its sad to see that the fear of isolation and to be looked down upon by others and worst of all to be killed for being your true self took a toll over Ennis and he just could not make himself follow his dream even though he desired it just like Jack and even though that was something he wanted the most in his life…  :\'(


vedrana

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #4 on: Dec 10, 2008, 08:57 AM »
I've never thought of it, but your previous post gave me an idea - it's possible that Ennis's fear went to it's the worst shape exactly in the moment when he was completely free to go, free to fulfill his wishes! Maybe we all have that fear - fear from the victory, fear to succeed, what if I really win, how will I cope?...

When still married with Alma, Ennis boldly said : I shouldn't a let you out a my sight! At that moment he had an excuse in his mind not to do it - that was Alma and kids!

But when Alma became past tense, and kids only few times a year obligations, there were no other obstacles to go to live with Jack. Nothing left to give him an immunity, to cover up for him, his wish become naked and exposed. At that moment his fears doubled or even tripled... he was paralysed by the power of his wish and the opportunities to make that wish come true! And unfortunately, couldn't move foreward! What a pity!

 :t) Cleo  <^(
« Last Edit: Dec 10, 2008, 05:13 PM by loreen »

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #5 on: Dec 11, 2008, 08:05 AM »
I've never thought of it, but your previous post gave me an idea - it's possible that Ennis's fear went to it's the worst shape exactly in the moment when he was completely free to go, free to fulfill his wishes! Maybe we all have that fear - fear from the victory, fear to succeed, what if I really win, how will I cope?...

When still married with Alma, Ennis boldly said : I shouldn't a let you out a my sight! At that moment he had an excuse in his mind not to do it - that was Alma and kids!

But when Alma became past tense, and kids only few times a year obligations, there were no other obstacles to go to live with Jack. Nothing left to give him an immunity, to cover up for him, his wish become naked and exposed. At that moment his fears doubled or even tripled... he was paralysed by the power of his wish and the opportunities to make that wish come true! And unfortunately, couldn't move foreward! What a pity!

 :t) Cleo  <^(

Thank you loreen   ^f^
u have said it beautifully and added a new dimension to what I have mentioned previously…   
I agree with everything u have said…

I think when the time came that Ennis was without Alma and he could live with Jack, we saw the happiness on Jacks’ face when he came to meet Ennis after driving for 14 hours…there is so much hope on Jack’s face...A hope of him to finally live his dream and when he meets Ennis we can see that Ennis is not willing to spend time with him…He is so scared of what his kids will think and what the people around will think...Even when he hugs him u can see the happiness on Jacks’ face but Ennis facial expression show him reserved and cautious…U see the way Ennis looks around as to who is watching him.…I know that u and I dislike this scene as we r like why cant he spend some time with Jack…Jack came from so far and he doesn't even spend some time with him and just lets him go…Although after being on this forum I have been trying to understand that why did Ennis do so...It was dam difficult for Ennis to just not be with Jack at that time but he still remained aloof…That shows the extent to which his fears dominated him...

As u said Ennis had nothing else to defend himself after his divorce with Alma so he got more guarded now…Its like these thoughts were haunting him from within and he just could not let himself fight them…He was a victim of his own life long fears…

Brach

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #6 on: Dec 18, 2008, 01:29 AM »
This line from SS wasn't introduced in the movie, but I am curious about Ennis's mind.

The film left out many important details from the SS. The SS motel scene sets the course for the remainder of their relationship.
Ennis says much to Jack in this SS scene that is not revealed in the film:
  • I didn't know where in the hell you was. Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch.
  • I was sittin up here all that time tryin to figure out if I was—? I know I ain’t. I mean here we both got wives and kids, right? I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain’t nothin like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you.
  • You do it with other guys? Jack?
  • That summer. When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois. Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn’t a let you out a my sights. Too late then by a long, long while.
  • I don’t want a be like them guys you see around sometimes.
  • I goddamn hate it that you’re goin a drive away in the mornin and I’m goin back to work. But if you can’t fix it you got a stand it.
  • I been lookin at people on the street. This happen a other people? What the hell do they do?

After departing from Jack in 1963. it took him a year to figure out that his gut cramps were because of Jack, and that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sight. Even so, he remains in his shell.

Ask yourself why it took about a year for Ennis to realize he should never have let Jack out of his sights.

Jack and Ennis married and had kids because they believed that's what cowboys were supposed to do. Each assumed he'd be content once he settled into the "normal" married-with-children life. But it didn't work out that way. Do the math. Jack and Ennis split up around August 20, 1963 and about a year later, in Sept. 1964, Ennis's first child was born. It was around the time Ennis's 1st child was born that he realized that he should never have let Jack out of his sights. However, it was "too late then by a long, long while."

First excuse is Alma&kids which I can completely accept... even it was obvious that life with Alma was far away from his ideal life, but he felt responsible, he felt he had a duty to stay with his family and that I can accept. But when his fragile marriage fell apart, he still refused Jack's offer for their life together, somewhere, anywhere...

Ennis does not make "excuses" not to live with Jack. Ennis would like to live with Jack, but he simply doesn't believe it's possible. Ennis expresses his frustration when tells Jack: “I goddamn hate it that you’re goin a drive away in the mornin and I’m goin back to work. But if you can’t fix it you got a stand it. Shit. I been lookin at people on the street. This happen a other people? What the hell do they do?”

Jack answers: “It don’t happen in Wyomin and if it does I don’t know what they do, maybe go to Denver.” Even Jack doesn't seem to believe two guys could live together in Wyoming, though he may believe it would be easier in a big city.


One year of gut crimps were not enough for him to realise who he should be with and what is the only "sweet life" for him?

Ennis did not say he had gut cramps for an entire year following the split. He said it took him about a year to realize that he shouldn't have let Jack out of his sights. However, it was "too late then by a long, long while." 

Why on earth he mentioned staying with Jack in that motel room if obviously he always manage to find a way out of that? First was Alma, later his childhood fear... but all this reasons were there at the very moment he mentioned the possibility to stay with Jack. Even so, he said it! And this words are not just some babbling. This words have a significant importance! But... they never come true! IMO, there's no visible reason for Ennis to develop such a fear towards Life with Jack.

Ennis and Jack went to the motel to finish what they'd only begun on the apartment landing. Ennis never suggested that he and Jack live together. It was Jack who suggested they live together. You do not see things the way Jack and Ennis did because you did not grow up in rural homophobic Wyoming in the 40s and 50s and 60s.  Even as adults, they continued to live in rural, homophobic communities.

Is there any condition that would have satisfied Ennis and help him decide about "sweet life" with Jack?

No. Ennis was extremely homophobic. More so than Jack. This is clear from Ennis's responses to Jack's suggestion that they ranch together: "I don't want a be like them guys you see around sometimes. And I don't want a be dead. Two guys livin together? No. All I can see is we get together once in a while way the hell out in the back a nowhere—"

When Lureen tells Ennis about Jack accidental death, Ennis isn't sure whether it was a real accident or "the tire iron."
Later, Jack's father tells Ennis:
Quote
Jack used a say, ‘Ennis del Mar,’ he used a say, ‘I’m goin a bring him up here one a these days and we’ll lick this damn ranch into shape.’ He had some half-baked idea the two a you was goin a move up here, build a log cabin, and help me run this ranch and bring it up. Then this spring he’s got another one’s goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He’s goin a split up with his wife and come back here.

Ennis's primary reaction upon learning that Jack was already in a relationship with another man when he told Ennis "I wish I knew how to quit you", was not hurt or betrayal, but conviction that Jack's death was not an accident. "So now he knew it had been the tire iron."
For Ennis, Jack's death was proof that two men cannot live together.

This is a story about long-lasting love subjected to the destructiveness of rural homophobia. Jack and Ennis are themselves homophobic.
They are products of their time and their rural homophobic environment. Their story is not a story that can be fixed. And if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it.



vedrana

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #7 on: Dec 18, 2008, 02:57 AM »
This is a story about long-lasting love subjected to the destructiveness of rural homophobia. Jack and Ennis are themselves homophobic.
They are products of their time and their rural homophobic environment. Their story is not a story that can be fixed. And if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it.

Thanks Brach  ^f^,

I think that you explained it so well, even I would disagree in some points.

I believe that women and men see this story in completely another way just as Ennis and Jack experienced their love in another way. Women always tend to put emotions in the first place, but obviously E&J emotions were not enough to fight the world.... well, at least rural world they belonged to.

« Last Edit: Dec 19, 2008, 04:16 PM by loreen »

Offline nonamelake

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #8 on: Jul 04, 2009, 11:01 AM »
From Loreen:

'But when Alma became past tense, and kids only few times a year obligations, there were no other obstacles to go to live with Jack. Nothing left to give him an immunity, to cover up for him, his wish become naked and exposed. At that moment his fears doubled or even tripled... he was paralysed by the power of his wish and the opportunities to make that wish come true! And unfortunately, couldn't move foreward! What a pity!'

I thought that was an interesting insight-that Ennis is at his most fearful when the obstacles are removed...This also addresses why Jack got shot down in the post-divorce scene, and maybe why Ennis reacted so violently to Alma's remarks to him in her kitchen: There was no protective layering between his desire for Jack and the shame that provoked. He could bury it in denials, when he was married; he could say that it was only Jack, and he was a married man-so it was an isolated event, the 'thing' that grabbed onto Jack and him. But once he lost Alma, and he still had his feelings for Jack-the truth must have been staring him in the face. When he tells Jack, 'I'm not no queer' on the mountain, he has the engagement to Alma to back it up-so he feels more free, less fearful, to fly high with Jack on the mountaintop. In fact, he seems to be rather unaware, beyond things seeming 'mixed' to him, after the sheep go astray.


Offline jedibarrister

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #9 on: Jul 06, 2009, 04:17 PM »
Even after the divorce, he had two obstacles: fear of death and ridicule and child support.  If he's dead, he can't provide for his kids.  Of course, when Jack dies, he's got one year left on child support.  When that was gone, and all he had was fear, it would've been interesting to see if he'd make a shift. 

Offline tpe

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #10 on: Jul 07, 2009, 01:31 PM »
Even after the divorce, he had two obstacles: fear of death and ridicule and child support.  If he's dead, he can't provide for his kids.  Of course, when Jack dies, he's got one year left on child support.  When that was gone, and all he had was fear, it would've been interesting to see if he'd make a shift. 

Interesting, indeed.  As I mentioned in another thread, some would seem to think that there was already some indication of a small but important shift within Ennis -- regarding his breaking up with Cassie.   But this is not a certainty, of course...


Offline nonamelake

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #11 on: Jul 08, 2009, 08:32 AM »

About the fear of living together:

     I think it's worth noting  that the author never exposes him to an actual bashing threat after childhood, does she? I think what Aguirre tells Jack after the mountain, is very indirectly a threat. Ennis barely registers it. (With Alma in the kitchen, that is an emotional threat, not a physical one..but he reacts as if it is. He gets violent with her. So something else is going on there.....)
     He tells Jack in the motel, that he doesn't want to be dead; and that he also doesn't want to 'one of them guys'. It's like two different thoughts. I read them as fear and shame. I don't see anywhere where Ennis is proud of his feelings, except for that brief window where he doesn't turn away from Alma's witnessing of the Reunion. I think that's the one moment that he really came out of his shell, because prior to the 'about a year later' when he claimed he realized what he felt for Jack, he was still in denial, it appears.


     
     I do wonder had Jack lived, what might've happened. I think the film implies, in that scene with Cassie, that there was a basic shift going on.
« Last Edit: Jul 08, 2009, 08:39 AM by nonamelake »

mimi1996

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #12 on: Mar 01, 2010, 02:18 AM »
Dear Loreen,
I really feel that childhood fears can have a major impact on the people we become...Ennis childhood experiences left a scar in his mind which followed him his whole life..After the 4 year reunion when Jack suggested to Ennis to live together it was his fears that stopped him..we can see how guarded Ennis got with that idea and we can also see that Jack understood why he got so guarded…that's how much Jack empathized with him…..Ennis was scared to be killed and to be looked down upon by his kids and the society at large..I know even after he divorced Alma, Jack was so happy as that brought hope for Ennis to live with Jack but Ennis dint want that too..Perhaps the fear of becoming an object of embarrassment and humiliation prevented..I feel sorry for Ennis as he could not follow his heart even if he wanted to… its just that he was not able to bring his strenght out and risk it all for love…I feel sorry for Jack as his dreams were shattered so many times...   :\'( :\'(


beautifully said.

Offline jackster

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #13 on: Mar 04, 2010, 02:48 AM »
This line from SS wasn't introduced in the movie, but I am curious about Ennis's mind. . . .
Why on earth he mentioned staying with Jack in that motel room if obviously he always manage to find a way out of that? 

Gotta' say loreen that my interpretation of this line from Ennis is a bit different. IMO I don't think Ennis is saying "we shoulda' stayed together" in the sense of living together. I feel he's sayin' "I shoulda' kept track of you" somehow kept in touch, maintained a link, so that they could have continued their clandestine sexual relationship here and there. But still continued with their other "normal" straight lives. IMO at this point Ennis still doesn't see how two guys could live together. What he wanted was what is frequently described in the gay community as a "f**k buddy". This is not to say Ennis didn't have a very strong emotional tie to Jack, it's just I don't think he knew any way to make that arrangement work. Hence Annie's use of this phrase, keeping him in his "sights" is not the same as shooting or trapping him, i.e. taking possession, as he did with Alma, it's just knowing where the prey is so you could get 'em, go after 'em, when you wanted.

Like when the truck broke down when he was going to high school. "He had wanted to be a Sophomore" but the truck broke down, and he couldn't fix it, so he just had to stand it. He may have wanted to live with Jack, but didn't know how to make that work so, he was just gonna stand it by getting together way the hell out in the middle nowhere.
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vedrana

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #14 on: Mar 04, 2010, 04:18 AM »
Gotta' say loreen that my interpretation of this line from Ennis is a bit different. IMO I don't think Ennis is saying "we shoulda' stayed together" in the sense of living together. I feel he's sayin' "I shoulda' kept track of you" somehow kept in touch, maintained a link, so that they could have continued their clandestine sexual relationship here and there. But still continued with their other "normal" straight lives. IMO at this point Ennis still doesn't see how two guys could live together. What he wanted was what is frequently described in the gay community as a "f**k buddy". This is not to say Ennis didn't have a very strong emotional tie to Jack, it's just I don't think he knew any way to make that arrangement work. Hence Annie's use of this phrase, keeping him in his "sights" is not the same as shooting or trapping him, i.e. taking possession, as he did with Alma, it's just knowing where the prey is so you could get 'em, go after 'em, when you wanted.

Like when the truck broke down when he was going to high school. "He had wanted to be a Sophomore" but the truck broke down, and he couldn't fix it, so he just had to stand it. He may have wanted to live with Jack, but didn't know how to make that work so, he was just gonna stand it by getting together way the hell out in the middle nowhere.

Hey, jackster!  :h}

Even though I wrote that post more than a year ago, I still didn't have the answer to that question... that is, until you explained. Yeah, I agree with you. Coz Ennis had absolutely no reason to say that he was sorry for letting Jack go out of his sight, after being so obsessed with the "normal life". He was simply sorry to waste 4 years of not knowing where Jack was and not having him by his side, but only in the way that you describe - as a "fu*k bud".

Moreover, he probably believed that had they been in touch, Jack would've never gone to Texas and the things would be much easier for them to meet "every once in a while."

Thanks, jackster! This was a painful line for me for a long time... I always thought - Damn it, Ennis! No you figured it out when it's too late, but in fact he never figured it out. He'd just wanted the same thing that he was practicing the next 20 years - keeping Jack on a short leash of his own tortured mind.

Poor boys! This story/movie will never cease to amaze me and to hurt me!  :_(

Offline jackster

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #15 on: Mar 04, 2010, 08:17 AM »
Howdy loreen, glad to be a' help.  :c)

You said sumthin' else here (actually a few things), which kinda' sparked my mind again . . .

. . .  He was simply sorry to waste 4 years of not knowing where Jack was and not having him by his side, but only in the way that you describe - as a "fu*k bud".

Annie was so good in this particular scene in the motel, one of the frustatin' aspects of the screenplay that  shifted the main focus of the boys interaction away from that crital scene. Anyway, when you mention "waste 4 years" it reminded me of what Ennis was doin' in those four years to remind himself of Jack:

"except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you"

This is such beautiful and frank expression of Ennis's pure lust for Jack, his admitted lust, which he was not at all bashful about sharing with his "lover". To me this shows how close, how deeply in love he was this man.
we get to drinkin' and talkin' an all

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #16 on: Mar 05, 2010, 11:02 AM »
Good points,boys and girls ¡ I tend to agree with Jackster,in the sense that in Ennis mind were two different aspects admitting that he shouldn't let him out of his sights than admitting to live this sweet life with him.Even if I see it as a love's statement,for Ennis was a demonstration that there was something,"this thing" that united him to his lover,but he wasn't willing to go beyond it.It seems as if he saw in a different way too to f*** a man than a be in love with a man; this second one was a further step that he-as you say very well Loreen,"so obsessed with a normal life"-didn't see as something of his own.
And he left it rather clear few days after the motel session when in the campfire by night tells Jack that they could meet once in a while in the middle of nowhere;of course to keep on being two buds with some sex,even if,immediately after,he admits that there ain't no reins on this one.Contradiction?.Well,somehow,in Ennis style ¡.But it's not so contradictory if we see that this didn't imply any further compromise,neither a total nor a partial even break of his life as a "normal" husband,father and,of course,man.For me,then,they're two aspects that don't go together necessarily,and in Ennis case,still less...
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
                         ----------------
Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline nonamelake

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #17 on: Mar 21, 2010, 07:06 PM »
'These words along with the kiss were an expression of wellcome, a sign of his good will and regret after punching Jack, it was an expression of his deepest needs, of his loneliness without Jack, and most of all - of his deep love. Period.'

Loreen, I tend to agree with this. I think the words cannot follow rationally, because he cannot rationalize living with Jack. At that moment, it's very passionate pillow talk-not a declaration of intent.

Offline mimi

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #18 on: Jun 03, 2010, 12:34 AM »
Thanks Brach  ^f^,

I think that you explained it so well, even I would disagree in some points.

I believe that women and men see this story in completely another way just as Ennis and Jack experienced their love in another way. Women always tend to put emotions in the first place, but obviously E&J emotions were not enough to fight the world.... well, at least rural world they belonged to.



Well said Lureen. Anfd its so true - even the everlasting bond of true love could not overcome the hate and the fear that the people involved felt. Ennis was the fear, the homophopic portion of rural society was the hate, and together they were just too much for the two unfortunate, broken men, Ennis del Mar and Jack Twist.
"...The smile  on your face lets me know that you need me,
there's a truth in your eyes
sayin' you'll never leave me.
The touch of your hand says you'll catch me
wherever I fall...
You say it best,
When you say nothing at all..."


   *     *     *    *    *    *    *


Let me lean against your steady heartbeat, the vibrations are soothing. Let me stand with your arms around me by the glow of the fire. Stay with me...just like this...always...

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #19 on: Jun 03, 2010, 02:44 AM »
Another great thread that I overlooked all these years.

Great discussion everyone.

Just my two cents worth here.

SS: " ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you"
movie: Ennis flicking his lighter while waiting for Jack, drinking beer after beer, and jumping down 'em steps two three at a time, to the ultimate palpable kiss

With Heath's performance, the words were conveyed in actions.

I agree with Jackster, though. 'em words wranging it out a hundred times sure gives new meaning to passion and lust. I ain't too sure if Ennis thought it was love at this point, however. He was still not sure what is this thing with no rein. He got all embarrassed and quiet when Jack talked about redlining it all the way from Texas. What the short story described as animal passion with the smell of sweat and more, the movie portrayed a more sensitive and romantic scene of two cowboys struggling to come to terms with their affections.

I love both versions.  <^(

Oh, ya...what's the difference between ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it? About sixteen years.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline mimi

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Re: ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...
« Reply #20 on: Jul 03, 2010, 06:02 AM »
Another great thread that I overlooked all these years.

Great discussion everyone.

Just my two cents worth here.

SS: " ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you"
movie: Ennis flicking his lighter while waiting for Jack, drinking beer after beer, and jumping down 'em steps two three at a time, to the ultimate palpable kiss

With Heath's performance, the words were conveyed in actions.

I agree with Jackster, though. 'em words wranging it out a hundred times sure gives new meaning to passion and lust. I ain't too sure if Ennis thought it was love at this point, however. He was still not sure what is this thing with no rein. He got all embarrassed and quiet when Jack talked about redlining it all the way from Texas. What the short story described as animal passion with the smell of sweat and more, the movie portrayed a more sensitive and romantic scene of two cowboys struggling to come to terms with their affections.

I love both versions.  <^(

Oh, ya...what's the difference between ...I shouldn't a let you out a my sight...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it? About sixteen years.

I love both versoions too, and I don't htink anyone could have pulled it off but heath. While the two Ennis' were different in some aspects, they were still the same vulnerable man. Both are so beautiful  <^(
"...The smile  on your face lets me know that you need me,
there's a truth in your eyes
sayin' you'll never leave me.
The touch of your hand says you'll catch me
wherever I fall...
You say it best,
When you say nothing at all..."


   *     *     *    *    *    *    *


Let me lean against your steady heartbeat, the vibrations are soothing. Let me stand with your arms around me by the glow of the fire. Stay with me...just like this...always...