Author Topic: When did Alma Know?  (Read 5624 times)

Offline thunderwolf

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
When did Alma Know?
« on: Jun 19, 2014, 02:07 AM »
Superbly acted, although marginalised in both the film and the short story, I like the character of Alma. Although I don't agree with some viewers that she is as much of a victim as our two heroes or even Lureen.

It's interesting that when the first postcard arrives from Jack, she passes it on to Ennis, but there is just the slightest inclination in her voice when she asks Ennis does he know someone called Jack? .

I don't want to be crude, but does she know, because Ennis is shown to take her from behind, or because she just knows.

I think that this element of her character is important. She seems very perceptive.

After she witnesses the reunion embrace, she is clearly is in misery - the shock of it all ages her years in seconds. When we see Alma collecting another postcard from Jack years later, (Anyone know what it says?) She initially hides it in depths of the paper and other mail on the counter, and presumably could quite easily just get rid of the postcard so Ennis never reads it.  Is this is a bit similar to the fishing equipment - the ones she knows are not used for fishing, but writes a note on anyway, in a futile attempt to be proven wrong, but displaying the strength of character that she needs to know the truth?

This contrasts so powerfully with Ennis and all 'them things' about Jack that he doesn't know, or more importantly chooses not to.

Anyone else notice that when each man is saying their respective goodbyes, Jack kisses Lureen on the mouth, who, although questions why Jack's friend can't come down to Texas, doesn't seem unduly concerned by it all. Alma on the other hand remains detached, staccato from the situation. There is no embrace between Ennis and Alma as he heads off for his 'fishing trip'.

Offline lancecowboy

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 8476
  • Gender: Male
  • free to be, Always
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 26, 2014, 06:13 PM »
The difference between Alma and Lureen is the difference between certainty and doubt.

With Alma, knowing the truth from the moment at the staircase, every minute with Ennis, every gesture of affection, was a lie. That's what made her so bitter and angry. That nasty Jack Twist...who stole her husband.

With Lureen, who never knew for sure, until Ennis called on the telephone, her heart was broken, but it was just another unrequited love.

They were all victims, all four of them, of homophobia. The women deserved to be loved by men who love them, and the men deserved to be allowed to live together, like Rich and Earl.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline thunderwolf

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 33
  • Gender: Male
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 29, 2014, 04:11 PM »
The difference between Alma and Lureen is the difference between certainty and doubt.

I like this - so true. I do think though that a further difference is Alma is shown to just want a family, and a husband, where as for Lureen the business is clearly really important too. Perhaps, that and the social aspect of being a big fish in a small pond, keeps Lureen going.

Offline lancecowboy

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 8476
  • Gender: Male
  • free to be, Always
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 30, 2014, 10:56 AM »
I like this - so true. I do think though that a further difference is Alma is shown to just want a family, and a husband, where as for Lureen the business is clearly really important too. Perhaps, that and the social aspect of being a big fish in a small pond, keeps Lureen going.

True. Alma has a special bond with her daughters whereas Lureen never bonded with Bobby, not since Old man Newsome took control and spoiled the kid the moment he took the baby for his own at the hospital. Lureen may also looked upon Bobby as the symbolic beginning of their drifting apart, as Jack started to redline 14 hours each way to Wyoming to meet his fishing buddy. I can't imagine him having much energy or libido for Lureen when he got back to Texas. That's another reason for Jack saying their relationship might as well be done over the phone. The fault is not all on Lureen. It takes two to tango, and it's kinda hard to do when the guy is not up for it. No pun intended. Lureen needed SOMETHING to keep herself occupied, and SOMEBODY had to take care of the family business, 'cause Jack was obviously off somewhere with bluebirds and a whiskey spring. So Lureen stepped up and been the hero of the family.

Alma, on the other hand, did her best taking care of her girls, but growing up poor, she had not many choices. Finding a rich respectable business manager was the best that she could do. Ennis didn't hold it against her, but couldn't compete, and felt ashamed to some degree, as expressed in the Final Confrontation. "I'm nothing. I'm nowhere. You're the reason I'm like this." Things we say in the pain of the moment, and later regret forever.  :_( I swear.  :_(
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline bluemountainsky

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • just like this, always
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 23, 2014, 01:59 PM »
I always wonder why Alma didn't throw away the postcards that she picked up from the mail after the first time. She knew that Jack and Ennis weren't really "fishing buddies", and she knew what they were doing on their trips together. So someone with that kind of resentment, you would expect them to just throw away the mail that came from Jack. But I guess she was afraid to do so, since Jack would keep sending the postcards, or perhaps Ennis would ask her about it if the postcards stopped coming.
"I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime;
In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside."

Offline lancecowboy

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 8476
  • Gender: Male
  • free to be, Always
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #5 on: Aug 25, 2014, 06:59 PM »
I always wonder why Alma didn't throw away the postcards that she picked up from the mail after the first time. She knew that Jack and Ennis weren't really "fishing buddies", and she knew what they were doing on their trips together. So someone with that kind of resentment, you would expect them to just throw away the mail that came from Jack. But I guess she was afraid to do so, since Jack would keep sending the postcards, or perhaps Ennis would ask her about it if the postcards stopped coming.

There is also the possibility that after the first postcard, Ennis and Jack arranged their next meeting in advance, at the end of each meet. There were not that many years after the reunion and the divorce. Alma jr was at most eight or nine at the divorce scene. So a dozen fishing trips are not difficult to arrange without Alma's knowledge or interference. Them cowboys were much into writing anyway.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline bluemountainsky

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • just like this, always
Re: When did Alma Know?
« Reply #6 on: Aug 25, 2014, 08:14 PM »
There is also the possibility that after the first postcard, Ennis and Jack arranged their next meeting in advance, at the end of each meet. There were not that many years after the reunion and the divorce. Alma jr was at most eight or nine at the divorce scene. So a dozen fishing trips are not difficult to arrange without Alma's knowledge or interference. Them cowboys were much into writing anyway.

Ah yeah, that makes sense. I guess they no longer needed postcards after the reunion, and planned in advance when to take the trips. I think therefore there were times when they did send postcards to tell the other one what time to meet again, and other times they didn't because it was already decided beforehand. There was that one scene in particular that made me wonder about this topic though, I don't remember what year it was. Right before the blue parka scene? Jack had sent a postcard to Ennis and Alma had been the one to check the mail that day. She brought in the mail and saw the postcard from Jack. She looked upset, like she was going throw it away, but then she gave it to Ennis. I guess it was because by that time she had resigned herself to the fact that Ennis was having a relationship with Jack and there was nothing she could do to change that. By that time I think it had been three or four years since the reunion, and so Ennis and Jack had gone on a number of trips by that time.

Also, I just thought of something. Why did Alma wait all that time to confront Ennis about it? At the Thanksgiving dinner, when she starts up a conversation about Ennis should marry again...it's clear she's just using that to get to what she really wants to talk about...the relationship with Jack.  It was her way of broaching the subject, as she already knew full well the reason why Ennis wouldn't be marrying again. I also wonder if Ennis knew all those years that she knew, or was it only then at the Thanksgiving dinner did he realize she had known for a long time, and he hadn't been fooling her. I have the feeling that he knew that she knew. In the reunion scene, when Jack comes up to the apartment to introduce himself to Alma, the looks on their faces...it's like they've been caught. That scene was so palpable that if you were there you'd probably hear how loud their hearts were beating...they both look like their hearts are pounding and their hands are shaking and they can't wait to get out of there. It's like Ennis realized "oh sh*t Alma must have seen us through that window, that's why she has this dazed look on her face all of a sudden".

One more thing about Ennis that I always think about when I watch the movie is how he could be so utterly careless one moment, and then in other moments be so fearful that it was to the point of outright paranoia. When Alma finally confronts him about it, he's terrified. I think what was going through his mind at that point was how Monroe was sitting just five yards away in the living room, that how many people Alma told, what was going to happen now...he grabbed her arm because he was just so terrified. Also after that, he told Jack that people around Riverton had started to give him weird looks...perhaps the rumors were going around by then in a small town like that where everyone knows everyone else. I really think it was not just the paranoia there...at that point people around town were speculating about him but had no proof, because they never saw the other man (Jack). Anyway, sorry for extending this post, just wanted to bring up these questions that I've always asked in my mind.
« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2014, 12:20 PM by bluemountainsky »
"I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime;
In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside."