Author Topic: Maybe you're a sinner (Read 101102 times)

matt78 · « **on:** Jan 19, 2006, 04:42 AM »

Anyone else get a small "hmmm" moment out of the exchange where Ennis says:

"Maybe you're a sinner, but I ain't yet had the occasion"

I think that's such a flirty thing to say! Very hot.

ethan · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 07:10 AM »

Quote from: garc1978 on Jan 19, 2006, 04:42 AM

Anyone else get a small "hmmm" moment out of the exchange where Ennis says:

"Maybe you're a sinner, but I ain't yet had the occasion"

I think that's such a flirty thing to say! Very hot.

Yes. It was flirty. Although the scene was not too long leading to the first tent, it was pretty effective.

Other moments I can think of

Ennis: "....what?

Jack: "that's more words than you've spoken in the past weeks."

Ennis: "that's the most I've spoke in a year"

Ennis: "...thought rodeo cowboys was all f***-ups."

Jack: "the hell they are"

After Jack collapsed in the heap. Ennis said, "I think my dad was right." :D

monicita · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:30 AM »

I agree, it was flirty. But do you think it also means that it is Ennis' first time? I do. And speaking of flirty: What about all those looks in the parking lot, before they enter the trailer. Ok, it is mainly Jack, who is openly flirting there. But Ennis does react...

monicita

matt78 · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:49 AM »

It was absolutely Ennis' first time but I think that he had sort of a natural knack for flirting with Jack and wasn't as innocent as he'd have you believe.

ethan · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:57 AM »

Quote from: garc1978 on Jan 19, 2006, 08:49 AM

It was absolutely Ennis' first time but I think that he had sort of a natural knack for flirting with Jack and wasn't as innocent as he'd have you believe.

I totally agree. One coin doesn't make a sound.

Quote from: monicita on Jan 19, 2006, 08:30 AM

I agree, it was flirty. But do you think it also means that it is Ennis' first time? I do. And speaking of flirty: What about all those looks in the parking lot, before they enter the trailer. Ok, it is mainly Jack, who is openly flirting there. But Ennis does react...

I don't know why ...the parking lot in the first scene just seems to be very cruisy to me and reminds me the look I have seen many times from gay bars.

monicita · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 09:04 AM »

I don't know why ...the parking lot in the first scene just seems to be very cruisy to me and reminds me the look I have seen many times from gay bars.

Quote

exactly. Cruisy is a good word for it. The audience last night (London, Leicester Square) definitely reacted to that look (some surprise, some sniggers).
monicita

ChrisStone · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 04:40 PM »

Very flirty, yes. Very hot, yes, sizzling. But self-revealing, too. Uneducated, with scant prospects for career or personal success, Ennis probably hadn't had all that many opportunities to drift into sin.

Toadily · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 04:44 PM »

But also says something about his perference, I mean he is engaged at that time to Alma, so why nothing with her?

*Froggy* · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 04:51 PM »

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 04:42 AM

"Maybe you're a sinner, but I ain't yet had the occasion"

very sweet and sexy...

jimnick · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 10:16 PM »

Do you think that they thought their love was sin? I certainly do not, but maybe they did. Maybe Ennis thought he had sin in his heart. He wouldn't go to the church social with Alma and the girls... Perhaps, he couldn't accept his love for Jack as something from god. I know society, his dad, and the world in general was (and still is to the greater extent) against the love that dare not speak it's name, but does anyone think that Ennis bought into it? I don't think Jack felt like a sinner because of their love. But Ennis... maybe...

Jim

tweric · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 01:37 PM »

I'd say yes... Ennis is very self-conscious about this..

From book:(Ennis)"...I been lookin at people on the street. this happen a other people?..."

In the movie, I remeber it's more like "...Do you have this feeling that ...people look at you.....".

Maybe that's why it's ok for him to be with cassie and Alma Jr., but it's not ok for him to be with his two girls and Jack.... because "people will know".... :'(

ethan · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 03:37 PM »

Quote from: tweric on Jan 20, 2006, 01:37 PM

I'd say yes... Ennis is very self-conscious about this..

From book:(Ennis)"...I been lookin at people on the street. this happen a other people?..."

In the movie, I remeber it's more like "...Do you have this feeling that ...people look at you.....".

Maybe that's why it's ok for him to be with cassie and Alma Jr., but it's not ok for him to be with his two girls and Jack.... because "people will know".... :'(

Yes, this further explains why Ennis said "two guys living together...no way"

jimnick · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 04:38 PM »

... it's such a tragedy...

Jim

rabjr1 · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 11:42 PM »

His reply is classic.

Reminds of a famous person (can't remember who) who on his death bed was asked by priest if he had made his peace with God, his reply was "I didn't know we had quarrelled"

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:00 PM »

Quote from: matt78 on Jan 19, 2006, 04:42 AM

Anyone else get a small "hmmm" moment out of the exchange where Ennis says:

"Maybe you're a sinner, but I ain't yet had the occasion"

I think that's such a flirty thing to say! Very hot.

I don't know if was meant to be flirty. However, if I had been Jack, it would have been extremely hard not to plant a big one on his lips right there!

It might have gotten me killed...but I would have died happy!

proulxfan · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 29, 2006, 08:04 AM »

I thought Jack was obviously cruising Ennis-and Gyllenhaal says somwhere that they decided to play Jack as if he had had prior experience-but that Ennis saw Jack at this point as a competitor for the job he is seeking. Of course subconsciously I think Ennis has more going on.

ranchgal · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 29, 2006, 05:24 PM »

In 1963 Good Girls still DIDN'T!! And out West, in the sticks, even less----I am betting that Alma and Ennis together may have had a few kisses good night---and held hands alittle. that would have been about it. I doubt they were ever actually together alone for any length of time.
first---Ennis didn't have a car, and no way to get one---so there go many dates, that someone didn't bring one or both of them to social gatherings so they could get together. He and Alma met in school probably, before he had to quit, and before he and his brother had to move cause sister got married and moved--and they couldn't make the rent in town anymore.
second-With Ennis being raised on a working ranch with his brother---they don't get much time off--for much of anything---a few church socials and a few community dances would be about it--Ennis wouldn't have had the time or the money to get anywhere to "sin" so to speak.

He may know what goes on, after all his sister got engaged and married, and his brother just got engaged---and he himself considered himself engaged, but actually being together physically for him and Alma--would have been mostly difficult at best.

jimnick · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 29, 2006, 05:29 PM »

Quote from: ranchgal on Jan 29, 2006, 05:24 PM

In 1963 Good Girls still DIDN'T!! And out West, in the sticks, even less----I am betting that Alma and Ennis together may have had a few kisses good night---and held hands alittle. that would have been about it. I doubt they were ever actually together alone for any length of time.
first---Ennis didn't have a car, and no way to get one---so there go many dates, that someone didn't bring one or both of them to social gatherings so they could get together. He and Alma met in school probably, before he had to quit, and before he and his brother had to move cause sister got married and moved--and they couldn't make the rent in town anymore.
second-With Ennis being raised on a working ranch with his brother---they don't get much time off--for much of anything---a few church socials and a few community dances would be about it--Ennis wouldn't have had the time or the money to get anywhere to "sin" so to speak.

He may know what goes on, after all his sister got engaged and married, and his brother just got engaged---and he himself considered himself engaged, but actually being together physically for him and Alma--would have been mostly difficult at best.

So Ranchgal:

Are you implying that Ennis is a virgin when he and Jack get together?

Jim

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 29, 2006, 05:47 PM »

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 29, 2006, 05:29 PM

Quote from: ranchgal on Jan 29, 2006, 05:24 PM
In 1963 Good Girls still DIDN'T!! And out West, in the sticks, even less----I am betting that Alma and Ennis together may have had a few kisses good night---and held hands alittle. that would have been about it. I doubt they were ever actually together alone for any length of time.
first---Ennis didn't have a car, and no way to get one---so there go many dates, that someone didn't bring one or both of them to social gatherings so they could get together. He and Alma met in school probably, before he had to quit, and before he and his brother had to move cause sister got married and moved--and they couldn't make the rent in town anymore.
second-With Ennis being raised on a working ranch with his brother---they don't get much time off--for much of anything---a few church socials and a few community dances would be about it--Ennis wouldn't have had the time or the money to get anywhere to "sin" so to speak.

He may know what goes on, after all his sister got engaged and married, and his brother just got engaged---and he himself considered himself engaged, but actually being together physically for him and Alma--would have been mostly difficult at best.

So Ranchgal:

Are you implying that Ennis is a virgin when he and Jack get together?

Jim

It would make sense that Ennis could have been a virgin. His only other opportunities back then for premarital sex would have been with a few "fast girls" that may have resided in his area. Although we have no insight into Alma's past, what we see on screen doesn't lead me to believe Alma wasn't a virgin when she and Ennis married. I agree with jimnick. It didn't seem that Ennis had too many opportunities for dating and a sex life.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 30, 2006, 07:53 AM »

Well as my long suffering grandad (the one married to the saintly but ill-tempered granny) used to say;

"Live and learn
die and burn"

"There's no such thing as a bad girl, it's just a good girl found out"
Mae West

Soldier-of-Rome · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 31, 2006, 11:25 PM »

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 19, 2006, 10:16 PM

the love that dare not speak it's name

Somehow I think I missed something. What does this quote mean?

jason · « **Reply #21 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 12:12 AM »

Quote from: monicita on Jan 19, 2006, 08:30 AM

speaking of flirty: What about all those looks in the parking lot, before they enter the trailer. Ok, it is mainly Jack, who is openly flirting there. But Ennis does react...

monicita

I wondered about all them looks in Aguirre's parking lot too.

I thought Jack was trying to stare off competition for the job -- make Ennis feel uncomfortable, sucessfully! -- staring fixedly at the ground.

But maybe not macho competitors so much as flirts (also uncomfortable for our Ennis LOL). Hmmm.

jason · « **Reply #22 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 12:25 AM »

Quote from: proulxfan on Jan 29, 2006, 08:04 AM

I thought Jadk was obviously cruising Ennis-and Gyllenhaal says somwhere that they decided to play Jack as if he had had prior experience-but that Ennis saw Jack at this point as a competitor for the job his is seeking. Of course subconciously I think Ennis has more going on.

Parking lot: proulxfan, you've convinced me. That provocative hip Jack plants against the pickup is more than even a 20-year old cowboy, competing for a job, would have used in that social situation.

So I think it's Jack who's got more going than Ennis, who seems inert at this stage to me.

jason · « **Reply #23 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 01:10 AM »

Quote from: Soldier-of-Rome on Jan 31, 2006, 11:25 PM

Quote from: jimnick on Jan 19, 2006, 10:16 PM
the love that dare not speak it's name

Somehow I think I missed something. What does this quote mean?

It refers to homosexual love. I'm pretty sure this is the phrase that Oscar Wilde made famous in a book, or at his trial for flagrant gay behaviors in the 1890s when Victorian England *really* would not tolerate such things AT ALL. Religious toleration, but not all tolerations. Heck no.

Wilde is referring to the Great Wall which so many of us felt against *ever* referring to gay love, EVER. Big ban on that in the Victorian world, all the way through to my youth in the 60s. How else are you going to control a bunch of teenager boys in a boarding school, LOL?

I'm starting to think that today's urban teens and 20s and 30s don't really have much sense of the BAN that existed on anything gay. Thank god for the liberalization that has occurred in North America and Europe. I'm still getting used to the fact that the Wall's coming *down* (same rhythm as "gun's goin off" in the BBM story).

monicita · « **Reply #24 on:** Feb 01, 2006, 01:16 PM »

Are you sure that wall is coming down everywhere? I think we tend to underestimate the cruelty of youth. What about rural places, small town USA (or Europe, for all that)? Is it really so much easier for teenagers to be openly gay there?

monicita

merry · « **Reply #25 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 02:05 AM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 19, 2006, 07:10 AM

Quote from: garc1978 on Jan 19, 2006, 04:42 AM
Anyone else get a small "hmmm" moment out of the exchange where Ennis says:

"Maybe you're a sinner, but I ain't yet had the occasion"

I think that's such a flirty thing to say! Very hot.

Yes. It was flirty. Although the scene was not too long leading to the first tent, it was pretty effective.

Other moments I can think of

Ennis: "....what?

Jack: "that's more words than you've spoken in the past weeks."

Ennis: "that's the most I've spoke in a year"

Ennis: "...thought rodeo cowboys was all f***-ups."

Jack: "the hell they are"

After Jack collapsed in the heap. Ennis said, "I think my dad was right." :D

Is the scene you quote flirty?? I'm curious... Can you explain me why?? It's interesting!

Merry

Uptown_Gal · « **Reply #26 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 11:01 PM »

Merry, I saw the scene as flirty - less by dialogue but by THE LOOK - the bemused sideways glance that Jack gives Ennis and Ennis responds self-consciously and grimaces "What?" I almost lose it.

proulxfan · « **Reply #27 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 11:28 PM »

Quote from: Uptown_Gal on Feb 02, 2006, 11:01 PM

Merry, I saw the scene as flirty - less by dialogue but by THE LOOK - the bemused sideways glance that Jack gives Ennis and Ennis responds self-consciously and grimaces "What?" I almost lose it.

I guess I don't see that as so much "flirty" as Ennis opening up and enjoying himself and the company of a buddy for the first time in a long time, perhaps the first time in his life. Maybe I'm just naive...

jason · « **Reply #28 on:** Feb 02, 2006, 11:57 PM »

Quote from: monicita on Feb 01, 2006, 01:16 PM

Are you sure that wall is coming down everywhere? I think we tend to underestimate the cruelty of youth. What about rural places, small town USA (or Europe, for all that)? Is it really so much easier for teenagers to be openly gay there?

monicita

You're right. I overstated it. I may be compensating for the fact I have a lot more confidence and experience than I did then

merry · « **Reply #29 on:** Feb 03, 2006, 03:23 AM »

Quote from: Uptown_Gal on Feb 02, 2006, 11:01 PM

Merry, I saw the scene as flirty - less by dialogue but by THE LOOK - the bemused sideways glance that Jack gives Ennis and Ennis responds self-consciously and grimaces "What?" I almost lose it.

Well, i see what u mean. The scene sounds flirty because of the glance. The text in itself doesn't reveal anything flirty, does it?

Merry