Topic: Jack, washing clothes in the river.

[Mykey]

Last night I had a dream in which Jack (in the scene where he's washing clothes in the stream) morphed into young Jack washing his urine soaked clothes and towel in the bath tub. "bawlin and blubberin."          Is this all playing on some sub-concious level?

[justlikethisalways]

Interesting point. This is right after the 1st tent scene, so Jack may essentially be washing the remains of their passion out of those clothes.

I'd say that the fact that you dreamed about this means that for you, at least, it's definitely working on a subconscious level!

[tpe]

Last night I had a dream in which Jack (in the scene where he's washing clothes in the stream) morphed into young Jack washing his urine soaked clothes and towel in the bath tub. "bawlin and blubberin."          Is this all playing on some sub-concious level?

Indeed a very interesting correspondence.

The screenplay says that Jack/Gyllenhaal shivers due to the cold as he washes the clothes.  With reference to your association, it can be thought of as a shiver coming out of a recollection of the insane cruelty of his father urinating on him as a child...

[Badarsila]

Last night I had a dream in which Jack (in the scene where he's washing clothes in the stream) morphed into young Jack washing his urine soaked clothes and towel in the bath tub. "bawlin and blubberin."          Is this all playing on some sub-concious level?

Indeed a very interesting correspondence.

The screenplay says that Jack/Gyllenhaal shivers due to the cold as he washes the clothes.  With reference to your association, it can be thought of as a shiver coming out of a recollection of the insane cruelty of his father urinating on him as a child...

EErrrrmm, soo Jack got peed at by his bastard father when he was a child???

I'm sorry but i haven't got the chance to read the BBM book, only watch the movie version, so could ya clarify this for me,... :-\

Poor Jack though,... :'( 

How could a father do somethin sooo horrible to his own flesh and blood?...

[gulliver]

After Jack shivers, the next line in the screenplay says he carefully wrings out Ennis's only other shirt.

Now that may have been one of his chores for being in camp but haven't we all done a chore for our lover and delighted in the task? It may be chilly but Jack's naked (thank you Ang!) and free in Nature, probably washing everything he owns and is in that beautiful scenery of Brokeback. Doin' something for his man.

Compare that to another laundry scene: that of Alma scrubbing clothes on the washboard in that dreary kitchen with kids clinging to her. She couldn't be less free. It's pure drugery to wash for her man. I'm not saying I know what it all means but those are two beautifully constrasting scenes. involving the two people who love Ennis.

[tpe]

EErrrrmm, soo Jack got peed at by his bastard father when he was a child???

I'm sorry but i haven't got the chance to read the BBM book, only watch the movie version, so could ya clarify this for me,... :-\

Poor Jack though,... :'( 

How could a father do somethin sooo horrible to his own flesh and blood?...

Yes, the urination scene is described close to the end of the short story as a recollection (by Ennis, I believe).  The reason for Jack's dad doing this is because Jack wetted his pants even at a later age...

For those of you familiar with 'Donnie Darko', recall that one of the infomercials in the film shows a young boy attributing his wetting his pants up until the age of 10 out of his own 'fear'.   This is an interesting correspondence between the said Gyllenhaal film and the short story...

[n061857]

After Jack shivers, the next line in the screenplay says he carefully wrings out Ennis's only other shirt.

Now that may have been one of his chores for being in camp but haven't we all done a chore for our lover and delighted in the task? It may be chilly but Jack's naked (thank you Ang!) and free in Nature, probably washing everything he owns and is in that beautiful scenery of Brokeback. Doin' something for his man.

Compare that to another laundry scene: that of Alma scrubbing clothes on the washboard in that dreary kitchen with kids clinging to her. She couldn't be less free. It's pure drugery to wash for her man. I'm not saying I know what it all means but those are two beautifully constrasting scenes. involving the two people who love Ennis.

Really cool observation.  I didn't take notice of the fact that Jack is washing Ennis' shirt, let alone compare it to Alma's washing later.  Thanks for pointing that out.                                              - Nancy

[n061857]

Last night I had a dream in which Jack (in the scene where he's washing clothes in the stream) morphed into young Jack washing his urine soaked clothes and towel in the bath tub. "bawlin and blubberin."          Is this all playing on some sub-concious level?

Indeed a very interesting correspondence.

The screenplay says that Jack/Gyllenhaal shivers due to the cold as he washes the clothes.  With reference to your association, it can be thought of as a shiver coming out of a recollection of the insane cruelty of his father urinating on him as a child...

In the story Anne makes quite a point of Jack's observation that his dad is not circumcised.  Does anyone see the significance of that?  And does anyone have any feelings about whether this event (and Ennis' early vision of poor Earl in an irrigation ditch) could have somehow influenced their sexualities aside from the obvious homophobia of Ennis???           Thanks                                     -Nancy

[tpe]

And does anyone have any feelings about whether this event (and Ennis' early vision of poor Earl in an irrigation ditch) could have somehow influenced their sexualities aside from the obvious homophobia of Ennis???           Thanks                                     -Nancy

I tend to think of them as manifestations of their developing sexuality, rather than direct influences.  Both had remote and stern father figures that they inherently sought approval from (Jack: 'Never taught me a thing, never once seen me ride...').  And if you are to believe old school psychoanalysis, this inaccessible and contradictory feelings for their fathers only served to reinforce their sexual natures.

Is it a case of nature versus nurture?  My feelings on this are complex. On one hand, I tend to side with 'nature' in a lot of cases.  On the other hand, I tend to equivocate: perhaps everyone has the entire spectrum of human sexuality open to them -- and it is their development and social influences that help to decide which component ultimately predominates.  I do not know the absolute answer to this.  Perhaps there is no single answer.