Author Topic: Jack's coat (Read 57691 times)

christie wood · « **on:** Mar 13, 2006, 05:54 PM »

I love the coat that Jack wears on brokeback, and it got me thinking about how the clothes that Jack (and Ennis) wore defined their characters, just as much as what they said and did. The shirts, the hats, the coats - they all have, in my mind anyway, come to symbolise in some way who Jack and Ennis were. When I think of Jack's coat, I think of the falling asleep like a horse scene - being kept warm by not only the coat but by Ennis's love - and when I think of Ennis's coat,I think of the alleyway scene, when Ennis can't keep upright anymore after Jack drives away.

Sometimes a thought in your head doesn't always come out right when put into words, but would be interested to know if anyone else has thought of their clothes in this way? Any thoughts on Jack's coat in particular would be really welcome!

If this has already been discussed on a previous thread, apologies! :-[

tpe · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 13, 2006, 06:12 PM »

christie wood, I recall an article that was posted concerning clothing in BBM. Have you read it.

The clothing in the beginning of the film is particularly poigniant. The contrasting colors, the worn out areas, the faded and muted shades, and the sparse wardrobes (just a spare shirt, perhaps, for each of them) add a certain poetry to the scenes up on the mountain

aimi15 · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 13, 2006, 06:14 PM »

It has occurred to me before how THIN and impractical Ennis' coat is for a summer on Brokeback - but i suppose this is to expected considering how poor he was. Jack had that one summer under his belt so he knew what to expect hence that lovely warm looking coat. I think you may be onto something here, particularly in regards to the flashback scene - its a scene that for me just radiates warmth and protection, the fire, Jack's lovely snuggly (sorry patehetic word - oh, and spelling!) And Ennis protectively holding onto Jack.
And its just occurred to me, when they part after the mountain - doesn't Ennis look exposed and vulnerable as hes walking down the road - in that thin, impractical jacket?

BBBOY · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 13, 2006, 09:53 PM »

Quote from: christie wood on Mar 13, 2006, 05:54 PM

I love the coat that Jack wears on brokeback, and it got me thinking about how the clothes that Jack (and Ennis) wore defined their characters, just as much as what they said and did. The shirts, the hats, the coats - they all have, in my mind anyway, come to symbolize in some way who Jack and Ennis were. When I think of Jack's coat, I think of the falling asleep like a horse scene - being kept warm by not only the coat but by Ennis's love - and when I think of Ennis's coat,I think of the alleyway scene, when Ennis can't keep upright anymore after Jack drives away.

Christie I think you see something that is very deliberate in the movie. The clothing certainly was used to define each of the characters in the movie with subtle brilliance. Jack's coat speaks of assurance and comfort in himself while Ennis's coat and clothes say something else altogether. Last night I was noticing in the last scene together how Jack is wearing this padded down coat, a fine pair of jeans and shirt beneath it and a nice pair of boots. Ennis is dressed in a cheap corduroy jacket, threadbear jeans and worn boots. What do you think that says?

jerasjr · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 13, 2006, 10:19 PM »

Jack has had an easier ife than Ennis, he has more money due to his wife, and is more in style. Ennis life seems to go downhill after BBM, he wears the same clothes until they are worn out. But yes the clothes are reflective of the era, and everything from hats to shirts to jeans to boots is tailored to their relative status in the period, another detail not overlooked.

BBBOY · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 13, 2006, 10:21 PM »

I noticed last night that the tents change on each meeting too. As Jack has more money the camping equipment becomes better. Just an observation.

n061857 · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 14, 2006, 02:49 PM »

Ennis's shirts and coats are also too small for him. The arms don't cover his. Poor Ennis. You just want to take him under your wing.
- Nancy

chameau · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 14, 2006, 03:28 PM »

Quote from: n061857 on Mar 14, 2006, 02:49 PM

Ennis's shirts and coats are also too small for him. The arms don't cover his. Poor Ennis. You just want to take him under your wing.
- Nancy

Haw... :'(

You got me Nancy, it's exactly what I feel for him.

tpe · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 14, 2006, 03:33 PM »

Yes, that's why Ennis keeps on tucking those shirts in -- all the time. Too small for him, for sure...

christie wood · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 14, 2006, 04:13 PM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Mar 13, 2006, 09:53 PM

Quote from: christie wood on Mar 13, 2006, 05:54 PM

I love the coat that Jack wears on brokeback, and it got me thinking about how the clothes that Jack (and Ennis) wore defined their characters, just as much as what they said and did. The shirts, the hats, the coats - they all have, in my mind anyway, come to symbolize in some way who Jack and Ennis were. When I think of Jack's coat, I think of the falling asleep like a horse scene - being kept warm by not only the coat but by Ennis's love - and when I think of Ennis's coat,I think of the alleyway scene, when Ennis can't keep upright anymore after Jack drives away.

Christie I think you see something that is very deliberate in the movie. The clothing certainly was used to define each of the characters in the movie with subtle brilliance. Jack's coat speaks of assurance and comfort in himself while Ennis's coat and clothes say something else altogether. Last night I was noticing in the last scene together how Jack is wearing this padded down coat, a fine pair of jeans and shirt beneath it and a nice pair of boots. Ennis is dressed in a cheap corduroy jacket, threadbear jeans and worn boots. What do you think that says?

There was so much subtle brilliance in this film, and I agree with you about this aspect of it. The clothes symbolise so much about their separate lives too, don't they? Jack would have given up all the finest jeans and shirts he owned if he could have had Ennis, and Ennis's wasted life is so obvious in his worn out clothes and stark surroundings he called home.

BBBOY · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 14, 2006, 06:35 PM »

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There was so much subtle brilliance in this film, and I agree with you about this aspect of it. The clothes symbolise so much about their separate lives too, don't they? Jack would have given up all the finest jeans and shirts he owned if he could have had Ennis, and Ennis's wasted life is so obvious in his worn out clothes and stark surroundings he called home.

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I think you are right on with this observation. Is it possible that to a certain degree Ennis was living in a world of self-pity in those last few years together? There are times I felt like he was expressing an "It's me against the world" kind of attitude, stubborn and defiant and unwilling to accept that there might be alternatives. It frustrated Jack to distraction but I doubt he would ever have given up on Ennis.

christie wood · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 07:30 AM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Mar 14, 2006, 06:35 PM

Quote

There was so much subtle brilliance in this film, and I agree with you about this aspect of it. The clothes symbolise so much about their separate lives too, don't they? Jack would have given up all the finest jeans and shirts he owned if he could have had Ennis, and Ennis's wasted life is so obvious in his worn out clothes and stark surroundings he called home.
Quote

I think you are right on with this observation. Is it possible that to a certain degree Ennis was living in a world of self-pity in those last few years together? There are times I felt like he was expressing an "It's me against the world" kind of attitude, stubborn and defiant and unwilling to accept that there might be alternatives. It frustrated Jack to distraction but I doubt he would ever have given up on Ennis.

Yeah, I do agree with you to a certain extent - Ennis had kept his love for Jack hidden all those years, because of how he felt it would be seen in the eyes of the world, so he'd learnt to be stubborn and defiant, even if it broke Jack's heart every time (the post-divorce scene being a prime example).

Two lines from Ennis sum this up I think:

"If you can't fix it, you gotta stand it"
"If you ain't got nothing, you don't need nothing"

Stephen · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 10:34 AM »

Well,this subject of clothes is just one more fascinating detail to observe: I was fascinated by Jack's increase in luxuries as the story builds: his outer world as seen in his trucks and jacket, "improve" as he becomes the successful salesman, in contrast to Ennis' world which is always just this side of poverty......yet Jack's inner world deteriorates as he reaches his threshold in the last scene with Ennis who, in his worn, ill fitting clothes, is in marked contrast to Jack.

tpe · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 11:30 AM »

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 10:34 AM

Well,this subject of clothes is just one more fascinating detail to observe: I was fascinated by Jack's increase in luxuries as the story builds: his outer world as seen in his trucks and jacket, "improve" as he becomes the successful salesman, in contrast to Ennis' world which is always just this side of poverty......yet Jack's inner world deteriorates as he reaches his threshold in the last scene with Ennis who, in his worn, ill fitting clothes, is in marked contrast to Jack.

Poverty and want are very powerful symbols. To see both of them overlaid on the stoic and ever so enigmatic Ennis makes an even a more powerful symbol: 'You don't need nothing if you have nothing' (I paraphrase).

Stephen · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM »

Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the straight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking for words.

tpe · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 12:31 PM »

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM

Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the staight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking forwords.

Stephen, thank you for the posts. A discussion starting with Jack's coat leading to a meditation on 'nothingness'. And people wonder why we love BBM so much...

christie wood · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:10 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 15, 2006, 12:31 PM

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the staight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking forwords.

Stephen, thank you for the posts. A discussion starting with Jack's coat leading to a meditation on 'nothingness'. And people wonder why we love BBM so much...

It is amazing how one thought on one aspect of this film can lead to so many brilliant and astute observations. Just when you think you've analalysed every scene as much as you can, something else springs up and takes you on another exciting journey to enlightenment!!! This is one of the (very, very many) reasons I love BBM so much, and love this forum so much. I think I'd go mad if I didn't have here to discuss, dissect and debate all the wonderful aspects of BBM.

BTW, was Jack's coat in the closet when Ennis discovered the shirts? I know there were shirts hanging up, but can't now recall seeing the coat.

dirtbiker · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:14 PM »

Quote from: christie wood on Mar 15, 2006, 05:10 PM

Quote from: tpe on Mar 15, 2006, 12:31 PM
Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the staight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking forwords.

Stephen, thank you for the posts. A discussion starting with Jack's coat leading to a meditation on 'nothingness'. And people wonder why we love BBM so much...

It is amazing how one thought on one aspect of this film can lead to so many brilliant and astute observations. Just when you think you've analalysed every scene as much as you can, something else springs up and takes you on another exciting journey to enlightenment!!! This is one of the (very, very many) reasons I love BBM so much, and love this forum so much. I think I'd go mad if I didn't have here to discuss, dissect and debate all the wonderful aspects of BBM.

BTW, was Jack's coat in the closet when Ennis discovered the shirts? I know there were shirts hanging up, but can't now recall seeing the coat.

Yes, the coat was the first piece of clothing he brushes his hand over when he went to the closet.... then the boots, then the shirts

BBBOY · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:21 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Mar 15, 2006, 12:31 PM

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM
Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the staight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking forwords.

Stephen, thank you for the posts. A discussion starting with Jack's coat leading to a meditation on 'nothingness'. And people wonder why we love BBM so much...

Now I'm going to have to start considering the nothing symbolism. :-\ Damn, but I love it!

Patriot1 · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:27 PM »

Quote from: christie wood on Mar 15, 2006, 05:10 PM

BTW, was Jack's coat in the closet when Ennis discovered the shirts? I know there were shirts hanging up, but can't now recall seeing the coat.

No, the green plaid coat was not in the closet. There were two other coats but not the green plaid one.

aimi15 · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:30 PM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Mar 15, 2006, 05:27 PM

Quote from: christie wood on Mar 15, 2006, 05:10 PM
BTW, was Jack's coat in the closet when Ennis discovered the shirts? I know there were shirts hanging up, but can't now recall seeing the coat.

No, the green plaid coat was not in the closet. There were two other coats but not the green plaid one.

I thought that too, although my copy is pretty dark, i'm sure i saw a red and white one, but couldn't see the Brokeback one. I also love the brown one he wore in the 'it could be like this...always' scene, but i guess that would be in Texas.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:47 PM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Mar 15, 2006, 05:30 PM

I also love the brown one he wore in the 'it could be like this...always' scene, but i guess that would be in Texas.

The brown one was pretty popular back then. I had a brown one and a tan one. They were sheepskin lined and nice and warm. Had gloves to match.

Toadily · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:51 PM »

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 15, 2006, 11:44 AM

Yes, that line does reverberate; If you have nothing, you need nothing, and you have nothing to lose: And that word nothing is so heartbreaking when Ennis says to Jack, You made me this way.....I'm nothing. Jack, with his high quality clothes, has his material needs, yet is painfully aware of his soulful and sexual needs; Ennis, who can't find himself in the straight or "queer" world, feels zero at the bone. It's just too heartbreaking for words.

One of my favorite moments is when Ennis says about having nothing to his daughter, he seems so much more at peace about it. I actually use that line now, I runs through my head when I start whining.

aimi15 · « **Reply #23 on:** Mar 15, 2006, 05:53 PM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Mar 15, 2006, 05:47 PM

Quote from: aimi15 on Mar 15, 2006, 05:30 PM
I also love the brown one he wore in the 'it could be like this...always' scene, but i guess that would be in Texas.

The brown one was pretty popular back then. I had a brown one and a tan one. They were sheepskin lined and nice and warm. Had gloves to match.

Always struck me in that scene the diffferences between them - Jack looking very well turned out with his neatly combed hair and his smart clothes - looking very well-to-do, and Ennis looking like no time has passed - he's still that poor boy with the worn out clothes that we saw on the mountain 4 years previous.

Stephen · « **Reply #24 on:** Mar 16, 2006, 07:17 AM »

How about 20 years previously! Now I'll just have to wait for the DVD to search for some of these details in clothes and to re analyze eveything else we've discussed! Can't wait.

BBBOY · « **Reply #25 on:** Mar 16, 2006, 06:30 PM »

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No, the green plaid coat was not in the closet. There were two other coats but not the green plaid one.

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I thought that too, although my copy is pretty dark, i'm sure i saw a red and white one, but couldn't see the Brokeback one. I also love the brown one he wore in the 'it could be like this...always' scene, but i guess that would be in Texas.

Quote

The coat definately was not the green plaid one but you are right, it had some red in it. Not sure about the white but you are probably right on that.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #26 on:** Mar 16, 2006, 10:33 PM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Mar 16, 2006, 06:30 PM

The coat definately was not the green plaid one but you are right, it had some red in it. Not sure about the white but you are probably right on that.

Here is the answer.

Stephen · « **Reply #27 on:** Mar 17, 2006, 09:40 AM »

Well, you certainly come through with the supporting detail, Patriot! Thank you for yet another one-frame photo. Is your down-load of BBM as clear as a DVD would be? Stephen.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #28 on:** Mar 17, 2006, 12:56 PM »

Quote from: Stephen on Mar 17, 2006, 09:40 AM

Well, you certainly come through with the supporting detail, Patriot! Thank you for yet another one-frame photo. Is your down-load of BBM as clear as a DVD would be? Stephen.

Well Stephen, I don't know. I've never seen a DVD. But you got to remember a computer screen is no high deff picture. Yet, it sure is good quality on my computer.

sam · « **Reply #29 on:** Mar 18, 2006, 07:22 PM »

Quote from: aimi15 on Mar 15, 2006, 05:53 PM

Always struck me in that scene the diffferences between them - Jack looking very well turned out with his neatly combed hair and his smart clothes - looking very well-to-do, and Ennis looking like no time has passed - he's still that poor boy with the worn out clothes that we saw on the mountain 4 years previous.

Quote

Yes, I noticed that too. Sometimes too small. Sleeves too short. Faded, thin, threadbare and worn in places... It occured to me too: Gosh, Ennis has not made any progress forward...he's still at that same place he was at way back on Brokeback Mountain that first summer with Jack... Still just chasing after "seasonal" work... Still probably just owning 2 shirts...

Poor, poor, Ennis. My heart breaks and I start crying whenever I think of him.

Besides that one line in the fight scene with Jack ("You forget what it's like being broke all the time."), we never really get to see how Ennis, (or Jack for that matter!), feel about this...

Has anyone else thought about this aspect?

sam

Here's Jack's Green Coat: