Author Topic: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis  (Read 28947 times)

Offline Angelove

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Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« on: Jan 01, 2006, 05:35 AM »
Howdy folks!

It's me Ryan again.  I watched the movie the second time with two of my best girlfriends this afternoon.  I kind of dreaded watching the movie again because it was very painful to watch it the first time because of Ennis and his dishonesty with not others, but himself, throughout the movie.

If not for the tragic ending, I would have given a bad review of this movie since I didn't like how Ennis made me feel up to the turning point near the end of the movie. I kept putting myself in Ennis's shoes and imagining myself doing things my way so that the movie wouldn't have ended in tragedy, that things would have turned out differently, that Ennis might be there with Jack when he passed from this life. I kept getting angry at Ennis's character for not having the courage to realize his needs and pursue them. I was angry at him for entering into a marriage and being dishonest with his wife, a woman who deserves to be loved in return.

You see, I came from a Mormon family and I was the eldest son. I was so scared of coming out that I hid in my closet in fear until I was twenty. It was only when I turned twenty that I reviewed my life and found that I was not happy. I was not happy because I felt that I missed out in my teenage years. I never had any real friends because I never showed who I was, I was living a lie the entire time. I never had a relationship. I never went out on a date. I never kissed. I never loved somebody.

It was then that I had to make a choice. One choice was to spend the rest of my life being the good son and saint and marrying a nice girl and raising a big family in the safety net of what was indoctrinated into me since I was a child. However, I would be living a lie and I couldn't imagine lying to my wife or raising my kids in a loveless marriage just so that I can feel "safe". This is the relationship model my parents had and I didn't want to end up like them, who are now thankfully divorced.

The second choice would be spend the rest of my life in solitude and being the perfect saint. This way, I would not be breaking God's rules or lying to a girl and to my family; the only person I would hurt is myself and I would become a martyr for my beliefs. However, this option is unbearable to me since I don't want to spend the rest of my life alone and deprived of love, counting the days to my death. No person should resign himself to such a fate, a life without the hope of love.

The third option would be to abandon the life I led up to that point and take a leap of faith. I would have to put my family into shame and break my parents' hearts. I would also have to accept the risk that my parents might kick me out of the house once I tell the truth about who I am. However, I realized that God would rather have me happy then be miserable and resign myself to a fate worse than death. I also realized that my parents will still love me for who I am and I don't want them to die only knowing me as their good son rather than their true son. So naturally, I picked the third option and have been happy ever since. I've never regretted my decision.

However, this is where my dissatisfaction with Ennis stems from. Because of the social climate of our times, I can come out today in my local area without the two threats that loomed over Ennis's head, the threat of his death and harm to the people he loves, especially Jack. This is not just a simple fear, but a real and serious risk that Ennis would place not only himself, but the people around him.

Although I might be able to believe that I'm invincible at the time and be fearless about death given my youth, I will regret living my life at the expense of my family, friends and lover. And once I saw it from that standpoint, I can finally sympathize why Ennis did what he did; he wanted to protect himself and the people he love, especially Jack more than himself. This is illustrated when he stood up for his family during the fireworks. He would rather sacrifice his own life and needs to protect others from getting hurt.

Throughout the movie, we see that Ennis associates being himself, or more specifically, loving Jack, with death and tragedy, the first of which is when he finds the remains of the sheep on the mountain after a passionate night with Jack.   However, the more poignant one is that of his father showing him the corpse by the roadside.  If I had that same traumatic childhood memory, then I would equate being queer as death. I probably wouldn't have come out at all and being a selfish, but real person suffering from the "human condition" of wanting to receive and give love, I would also have picked marrying a woman and have kids rather than staying single and dying alone or seeing my love ones mowed down by bigots.

If his time was more like our own, if he was not raised to be a Malboro man/cowboy/father figure/etc, if he was able to love and be who he wanted to be, he could have spared himself from watching the people around him getting hurt by his decision. I believe that Ennis grew wise enough to realise that as much as he protected his love ones from death and harm, he was also the source of their emotional torment and hell.

I believe that the reason why he got more and more hunched and closed throughout the movie was because he couldn't stop himself from simultaneously loving, protecting and hurting the people he loves and saw no way to break the vicious cycle. He's constantly internally wrecked with guilt and shame that although he strives to be their protector, he was also their tormentor as well. Something he could not forgive himself, but was forced to live with since the other alternative, death, scared him far greater.

That's probably why Ennis broke up with his second girlfriend; he didn't want to hurt anymore people.  What I took from Ennis's breakup with his second girlfriend after his last meeting with Jack was that he was beginning to break out of that cycle; he was ready to accept a life with Jack if it was not for his untimely demise.

The true tragedy for me was not really Jack's death, but that Ennis was so close to finally attaining the freedom and happiness he has always wanted and dreamed of. We all wanted him to be happy. And we all felt his pain and loss when he hugged Jack's shirt. We all felt that he deserved the freedom to love and be loved, the same kind of freedom that we sometimes take for granted.

What the movie shows is that the true enemy is not religious groups, the government or even hateful bigots.  It's death.  We are only given so much time to live, and Time is very unforgiving if we do not learn from our mistakes.  Death is certain and it will not give us a second chance once it passes.  If anything, what we should take from the movie, as my friend Mike rightfully mentioned, is to live each day as if it was our first and be with our love ones as if it was their last.  Because it might be.

As you can see, the movie is still affecting me and I hope that my thoughts on this matter will help others come to terms with the movie as it did for me.  I hope to hear more comments regarding my newest post.  Take care and Happy New Year, don't let it go to waste.    ;D

Ryan

Offline stationbbm

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #1 on: Jan 01, 2006, 04:42 PM »
Ryan:  Appreciate your insights on your second viewing.  I too went to see this film for a second time.  Most of your insights regarding Ennis seem to hit the mark.  However, there's one thing to bear in mind...Ennis was a pretty simple-minded character for the complexity of this relationship.  Said another way, I think he was simply prey to his past (never having been loved) and 1960's homophobic society.  Neither Ennis nor Jack were about BBM until it simply happened.  Both Proulx and Ledger indicate that Ennis is harboring deep-seated pain inside and never knows how to show love in order to get love.  Too, the masculine, cowboy element doesn't make it easy for that love to get out either.  I don't for a moment believe that Ennis really understood what BBM would do to him, his life, his future.  That can be said of romance....caught up in the moment, etc...without really thinking of the long-term implications. The sadness of feeling forced into marrying and having a family to "give off" a hetero impression and protect himself (and Jack) was tragic fallout of what Ennis and Jack stumbled into on BBM and then what 1960's Wyoming required.

stationbbm 

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #2 on: Jan 01, 2006, 04:49 PM »
Ryan:  Appreciate your insights on your second viewing.  I too went to see this film for a second time.  Most of your insights regarding Ennis seem to hit the mark.  However, there's one thing to bear in mind...Ennis was a pretty simple-minded character for the complexity of this relationship.  Said another way, I think he was simply prey to his past (never having been loved) and 1960's homophobic society.  Neither Ennis nor Jack were about BBM until it simply happened.  Both Proulx and Ledger indicate that Ennis is harboring deep-seated pain inside and never knows how to show love in order to get love.  Too, the masculine, cowboy element doesn't make it easy for that love to get out either.  I don't for a moment believe that Ennis really understood what BBM would do to him, his life, his future.  That can be said of romance....caught up in the moment, etc...without really thinking of the long-term implications. The sadness of feeling forced into marrying and having a family to "give off" a hetero impression and protect himself (and Jack) was tragic fallout of what Ennis and Jack stumbled into on BBM and then what 1960's Wyoming required.

stationbbm 

WOW...Just WOW...I just love what you wrote.
It has put into words some of my own thoughts...Thankx
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Offline Toadily

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #3 on: Jan 02, 2006, 01:56 PM »
I have some thought about why this movie touches people.  Everyone is talking about how "revolutionary" it is,
and I think it's getting to us cause it's ...not.  It's about love, it's about needing love and needing to love.
How basic and mainstream is that?

Also its about domesticity, it's about making a home. Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all
to be with Ennis. David Brooks just wrote a column in the NY times about the call and return to dometisity
and I wrote to him about Brokeback being just that.  So I say it's not a new age movie but rather an  age old one.
Note all the cooking scenes in the beginning, and Jack washing Ennis's shirt, stuff like that.

"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #4 on: Jan 02, 2006, 03:47 PM »
I have some thought about why this movie touches people.  Everyone is talking about how "revolutionary" it is,
and I think it's getting to us cause it's ...not.  It's about love, it's about needing love and needing to love.
How basic and mainstream is that?

Also its about domesticity, it's about making a home. Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all
to be with Ennis. David Brooks just wrote a column in the NY times about the call and return to domesticity
and I wrote to him about Brokeback being just that.  So I say it's not a new age movie but rather an  age old one.
Note all the cooking scenes in the beginning, and Jack washing Ennis's shirt, stuff like that.



Thank you so much for your post  :D
Love BBM

 
Quote
Jack was rich at the end but would have chucked it all to be with Ennis

Well he was going to take his FIL's money first! But yes you are right, he would have left it all just to be with Ennis ... gosh Ennis you needed a kick in the derriere!
« Last Edit: Jan 02, 2006, 03:54 PM by frog123 »
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Offline stationbbm

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #5 on: Jan 02, 2006, 04:18 PM »
Toadily:  To further amplify on your thoughts, the film seems to force the audience to confront our close-mindedness and intolerance to allow for this needed love to flourish.  Imagine yourself being raised and bred in an intensely masculine environment as the cowboy/rancher genre.  There would be no way to even remotely discuss this type of relationship, let alone acting upon it.  As Ennis reflected on his past, he was absolutely convinced that stepping into a same sex relationship would be extremely dangerous for both of them.  The risk element to this relationship could not be more powerfully displayed than seeing the dead fellow lying in a dry gulch.  Zero tolerance.  This majestic film begs for our modern day audience to step aside from hatred and, further, to understand that we all want and need to be loved.  Ennis never felt significant in any way until Jack stepped into his life.  Doesn't everyone deserve that same kind of dignity and respect?

stationbbm

Offline Toadily

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #6 on: Jan 02, 2006, 04:32 PM »
Right, well put and look how many other people were hurt due to this
ridiculous hatred, the wives, the kids, the girl friend.  If Ennis and Jack
could have lived together imagine how nice it would be for this daughters
to not have miserable father?  Lureen would have found someone
who loved her and she might not have dyed her hair so much ;-)
I mean the list goes on.
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #7 on: Jan 03, 2006, 11:23 AM »
The hatred and bigotry of the social climate of Ennis's time seems to take a second place in the movie once the true and universal foe rears his head, Death himself.  We all keep blaming society for the tragic ending, but Ennis knew as well as we do that society is not all to blame, he has to shoulder some of it too as he was the one who made the choice to marry Alma, have children with her, pursue an extramarital affair with Jack, remain in a loveless marriage with Alma, etc.  For me, the tragedy here is that he as well as many others, believed that this was the only way they could live with when truly, as long as you are living, there's always an opportunity to change and make your life better, a lesson that Ennis learnt a little too late.  Yes, bigotry, homophobia, close mindedness and all of the ills and evils of society are extremely important issues that we should discuss and try to resolve, but these terrible issues pale in comparison with the certainty that Death brings.  That's what the movie means to me.  That if we lived our lives as if it is our first and our love ones only had today to live, then society takes a second place in our priorities as it should and the important people in our lives become, rightfully, our first.

Offline stationbbm

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #8 on: Jan 03, 2006, 11:41 AM »
An interesting angle...I would only submit that "death" in the case of BBM was brought on by choices that Jack made in the context of society/cultural norms...Ennis did more than his part to make Jack aware of that (i.e., "If you can't fix it, ..., reflection of his childhood experience).  Seems that while Death is inevitable and requires all of us to treat every day like it's our last, Jack coupled with societal prejudices made some choices that put in motion the results that make this a tragic story.  Not sure that fully understand your reference to setting priorities between death (something that most of us have little control over) vs. changing cultural norms.  I thought that one of the most central themes to the film revolved around the cowboy culture, inabiltiy to pursue this relationship openly, on and on.  Please come back at me with more clarity...I want to understand your meaning.

Thanks,
stationbbm

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #9 on: Jan 03, 2006, 01:40 PM »
Anne decided to leave Jack's death a mystery and we don't know how he died for certain.  With that said, we can not say which actions persay led to his untimely demise.  And as I said before, Jack's death does not make this a tragic story, it's Ennis's inability to express his feelings as well as his inability to step outside the box of the reality and social constructions (the Malboro cowboy image) society has imposed on him.  Because he thought that his way was the only option to live his life, he endured it despite of the unhappiness that it gave him.  He allowed society put limitations in his world whether it's the zero tolerance for homosexuality or whether believing that being married with a woman and having children is the right way to live and end your life.  These limitations, as ingrained into his consciousness to the degree he believes them to be universal truths, are not limitations or universal truths at all.  You don't need to be married to a woman to be happy, you don't need to be straight to be happy.  Happiness is subjective to each one of us and it is up to us to pursue it and not depend on a cultural standard that might not work for everyone.  I believe that with Jack's death, Ennis finally saw that he does not need to stay in the box to be happy, but it was too late to enjoy life with Jack and that's the true tragedy, this lost opportunity.

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #10 on: Jan 03, 2006, 05:35 PM »
I should clarify what I've said actually.  When I first wrote this post, I was under the impression that Ennis's choices in life were limited, that he could not be with Jack because they were both men and were in a place that would not support their lifestyle.  That he had no choice, but to lead the life as society sees fit for any man of that era, to be the breadwinner and provider and protector of his family and that any promise of happiness, or even his survival, will only be guaranteed if he walks this straight and narrow path.  However, this is exactly what the movie is trying to warn us against, to not blame society for the choices we make, to not let society prevent us from doing what we feel we need to do.

Society does not limit our choices as the choice will always be there for us to make.  We limit our own choices by succumbing to our fears and prejudices and social pressure.  We allow them to control our lives despite of our better judgement and let us feel that there is only one right choice to make, one path in life to choose from to be happy.  Ennis saw it this way. 

Yes, we could blame rampant homophobia, religion, government, close mindedness, bigotry, etc, for why it was impossible for Ennis to be together with Jack.  Ennis made his choices based on those same rationalizations, fears and social pressures.  However, if we say that Ennis had no choice in the matter, that the choice he made was the only one he could make at the time given the social climate of his times, then we are no better than Ennis for feeling that way, for letting those social ills ruin our happiness and the lives of the people around us even though we disagree with them with all of our hearts.  This is the kind of silence that kills.

Just because Ennis is the epitome of the Malboro man image, it does not mean he has one path he can take to lead his life, he still has the choices in front of him even though some of them go against that cowboy image.  In this case, he chose to let society prevent him from making the most important decision in his life.

In fact, the only few times that choice is taken away is through Death.  Even if Ennis decides to choose to be with Jack at the end of the movie, the choice is no longer there for him to make as Jack is already dead.  That's why I say that Death is something we should fear.  Society does not limit our choices.  Death does.

I hope that this explains what I'm trying to say, I tend to go round about the bush to make my point, lol.

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #11 on: Jan 03, 2006, 07:42 PM »
I should make another note before I leave.  I do blame society for putting Ennis between a rock and hard place and having him to choose the two.  At the same time, I don't blame Ennis for picking the lesser of the two evils for him since that's all he could see as an option.  I applaud that he has at least tried to maintain a relationship with Jack and didn't give up hope early on in the relationship.  And let me make another correction, what the movie has taught me is to not fear social pressures, bigotry, etc or even Death itself since some paths do have a certain element of risk in it that leads to Death, but to fear regret and lost opportunities, and to choose the path that minimizes those two elements.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #12 on: Jan 03, 2006, 07:46 PM »
Than ks for all this Angelove  :-*
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Offline stationbbm

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #13 on: Jan 03, 2006, 08:05 PM »
Angelove (Ryan):  I will need to think about what you've said here....you've said a lot that I will need to step back and contemplate.  In some sense, you've made argument for certain ambitious platitudes...not sure that a pragmatic individual would necessarily see this view.  Those in our ugly history who were subject to slavery would have a hard time with some of your remarks about not letting society rule the day.  Arguments around what we really have control over and what we don't...I think there are some grey lines here.  Nevertheless, let me spend time reading and re-reading.  The voice of this forum gets richer and richer with these very thoughtful and insightful comments.  I'm less concerned with Ledger's magazine covers and more engaged around the content and merits of this literary gem turned film screen masterpiece.  There's so much to jump into and wade through and be inspired by.

Many thanks,
stationbbm

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #14 on: Jan 11, 2006, 12:51 AM »
I came across a very good quote from one of the most unlikely sources.  I know that I shouldn't be digging up past ghosts on this thread, but the following passage describes how I feel towards Ennis and the predicament he found himself in:



We didn't have a choice then. We believed that was the only way. Do you know what it felt like to watch? Right before my eyes? It was the only thing we could do. It was the only choice we had. I gave in, I accepted, I believed. I allowed it to be true.

I thought I'd be able to go through with it without ever doubting myself. But I... It hurts so much.

Everyone was so happy.   There were too many smiles to count. And I know that I was smiling, too. But now...when I look back... The people who should be here aren't. The ones who should be smiling with me aren't here.

"We had no choice." Always "we had no choice." Those are our magic words.  We repeat them to ourselves again and again. But you know... The magic never worked! The only thing we're left with is regret.

No. I don't want this anymore.

I don't want friends to die...or fade away. I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.



This is how I would feel . . . No, this is how I felt.  I don't know if Ennis felt this way, but I don't want to ever feel how Ennis felt like at the end of the BBM.  I don't know if I could ever understand Ennis, or at least the way most people feel towards him.  But what I do know is that I don't believe in his words, if you can't fix it, you'll have to bear it.  I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.

Offline ChefStevo

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #15 on: Jan 11, 2006, 02:12 AM »
Hey Angel:
This is Steven from Los Angeles.....wow this is a great topic.....As a Gay man that grew up in the mid west...and then moved to Los Angeles CA to be accepted....I really understand what you are saying....I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!!   I cant screen that enough!!!!!! and I mean that...This for me is the GAY movie I want to see....and if your not gay you will not understand!!!...this MOVIE for me is 2 GREAT people that fall in love....and hey do they know about gay....I don't know....but what a great movie about 2 GREAT guys...and I really hope it wins all the awards it should....
Take care,
Steven

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #16 on: Jan 11, 2006, 06:37 PM »
This is how I would feel . . . No, this is how I felt.  I don't know if Ennis felt this way, but I don't want to ever feel how Ennis felt like at the end of the BBM.  I don't know if I could ever understand Ennis, or at least the way most people feel towards him.  But what I do know is that I don't believe in his words, if you can't fix it, you'll have to bear it.  I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.


Angelove,

Rex Wockner wrote something today that I think you might find interesting:

http://www.365gay.com/opinion/wocknerWire/wocknerWire.htm


Offline chameau

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #17 on: Jan 11, 2006, 07:13 PM »
If there are people on this forum speaking/reading French, I would suggest this nice and moving review from La Presse:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20051217/CPARTS/512170534/5316/CPARTS01



La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #18 on: Jan 11, 2006, 07:51 PM »
Thanks for the replies Chameau, Sharve and Steven! 

The quote I used previously actually came from a video game (extra points to those who can tell what game I'm talking about) and it has no gay characters whatsoever (although some of them can be interpreted as so).  I believe that this situation could happen to anybody whether gay or straight and that's why this film is so universal and heart gripping. 

I have also read the review and it mirrors what I have previously posted.  I've always tried to think outside the box and question the mainstream.  If I happen to agree with it, I will just go with the flow, but if I don't, then I will spend every waking moment fighting upstream even if it kills me doing so.  And that's the person I am whether it comes to coming out of the closet or when it comes to Love. 

For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy.  I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.)  Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him.  But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.

With that said, here's a quote from the review,

"So, the lessons of this stunning film are fairly simple.

1. There's very little in life that is truly important or really matters or makes much of a difference. One of those very few things that does matter is finding the love of your life.

2. If you find the love of your life and get to experience that -- if only for one summer -- and then you screw it up, your life may be crappy forever thereafter, unless you happen to have the incredible luck to get a second chance with someone else.

3. So, if you have the good fortune to find the love of your life, you must move mountains to protect that relationship at any and all cost.

Jack Twist became ready, willing and able to move mountains but Ennis Del Mar didn't, and that ruined both of their lives."



I don't believe that life/fate/God/cosmic entity is that cruel and even though if we all screw up once in our lives, I believe that we will be given many more opportunities to love and be loved.  We just need to be open and ready to accept the challenge and blessing when it comes our way.  I'm a firm believer that when we feel ready and are ready, we will be given another crack at the age old dance of Love.  We just need to wait.  Hell, it took me two years before I was ready again, but it was well worth the wait.

Here's another quote from the review,

"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."

This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak.  As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough.  For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy.  If that's love, then so be it.  If it is your dream, then go for it.  The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.

I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.

Besides,  I plan to move to him once I achieve my dream, which I can then take anywhere I go.


Offline tpe

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #19 on: Jan 12, 2006, 08:36 AM »
Thanks for the replies Chameau, Sharve and Steven! 

The quote I used previously actually came from a video game (extra points to those who can tell what game I'm talking about) and it has no gay characters whatsoever (although some of them can be interpreted as so).  I believe that this situation could happen to anybody whether gay or straight and that's why this film is so universal and heart gripping. 

I have also read the review and it mirrors what I have previously posted.  I've always tried to think outside the box and question the mainstream.  If I happen to agree with it, I will just go with the flow, but if I don't, then I will spend every waking moment fighting upstream even if it kills me doing so.  And that's the person I am whether it comes to coming out of the closet or when it comes to Love. 

For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy.  I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.)  Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him.  But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.

With that said, here's a quote from the review,

"So, the lessons of this stunning film are fairly simple.

1. There's very little in life that is truly important or really matters or makes much of a difference. One of those very few things that does matter is finding the love of your life.

2. If you find the love of your life and get to experience that -- if only for one summer -- and then you screw it up, your life may be crappy forever thereafter, unless you happen to have the incredible luck to get a second chance with someone else.

3. So, if you have the good fortune to find the love of your life, you must move mountains to protect that relationship at any and all cost.

Jack Twist became ready, willing and able to move mountains but Ennis Del Mar didn't, and that ruined both of their lives."



I don't believe that life/fate/God/cosmic entity is that cruel and even though if we all screw up once in our lives, I believe that we will be given many more opportunities to love and be loved.  We just need to be open and ready to accept the challenge and blessing when it comes our way.  I'm a firm believer that when we feel ready and are ready, we will be given another crack at the age old dance of Love.  We just need to wait.  Hell, it took me two years before I was ready again, but it was well worth the wait.

Here's another quote from the review,

"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."

This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak.  As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough.  For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy.  If that's love, then so be it.  If it is your dream, then go for it.  The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.

I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.

Besides,  I plan to move to him once I achieve my dream, which I can then take anywhere I go.



Thanks Angelove for sharing this.  As a whole, I agree with your comment that love is not enough (as in the case of Ennis). 

But it is comforting to me that in spite of all the odds and difficulties, Ennis did love. 

And, most wonderful of all, he was also deeply loved in return.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #20 on: Jan 12, 2006, 12:06 PM »
Thankx Angelove,  ;)

For example, I'm spending Valentine's Day with my best girlfriends instead of spending it with my boyfriend because my girls have been with me for five years now and we made a promise to always spend Valentine's Day together instead of our boyfriends, which we tend to just pig out on chocolates and desserts in front of a nice sappy romantic comedy.  I could fly up a day earlier to spend Valentine's with my boyfriend, but I know that I will regret not spending Valentine's Day with my girls more than I would miss spending it with my boyfriend, although it does not relieve him of giving me red roses when I do see him (I told him specifically that I wanted that.)  Don't get me wrong, I do love my boyfriend and I'm taking six days off from work, which is all of my vacation time, to spend with him.  But I refuse to ignore my friends, I love them just as well as I love JC.

[...]

"If you're a gay man of a certain (or maybe any) age, you've likely been here -- either as a Jack or an Ennis. You've loved a man who loved you but you couldn't ride off into the sunset together because one of you was unable or unwilling to fight his way out of the homophobia box. Either you or he thwarted the chance for love-of-your-life happiness. Love itself wasn't enough."

This could happen to anybody, one partner being ready to love and be loved while the other partner not be ready so to speak.  As I've said previously, I don't believe in Love of your Life, but I do agree with one sentiment, Love itself wasn't enough.  For me, the movie is not all about love, it's about the courage to do what you feel have to do, the courage and strength to pursue what you want, to do what you need to be happy.  If that's love, then so be it.  If it is your dream, then go for it.  The reason why I'm saying this is because as much as I want to be with my partner right now where he is, I would never forgive myself if I had to abandon my dream to do so.

I don't want battles where we have to lose in order to win.


You are a great friend...I love your valentine friends only "date"! It's so nice! :D

Regarding the relationship issue and fear of riding off into the sunset...I'm straight, but had a similar problem.
My Jack was an older man...if he was not my Brokeback Mountain, then he was my Brokeback Hill (read that somewhere and loved it).

I could not face our families and other things...His love was not enough...and i probably did not love him enough! (Well that is how he saw it!). My battles were too great to fight and I gave in...I guess I did not have the stenght to fight for us...so I set him free...ended up brokenhearted for a very long time too!



Thanks Angelove for sharing this.  As a whole, I agree with your comment that love is not enough (as in the case of Ennis). 

But it is comforting to me that in spite of all the odds and difficulties, Ennis did love. 

And, most wonderful of all, he was also deeply loved in return.

He did love, didn't he... :'(
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If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
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Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #21 on: Jan 12, 2006, 03:26 PM »
Howdy tpe and frog123,

Yes, that's what makes BBM so heartwarming, even though those two characters never say it directly to one another, they don't have to.  We could see that both of them love each other deeply, that's why they keep going to BBM all those many years.  Yet, like you said, as much as their love raises Ennis up, it also crushes him in the end which we all felt as well. 

I'm guessing that this film will appeal to people, such as frog123 and I, who have loved, but have been crushed by it even though we still love that special somebody.  And no, frog123, you did love that special one enough or else you would not have such strong feelings for him to this day.  But sadly, you are also right in the fact that we were not strong enough to maintain a relationship despite of that love.  I guess we should celebrate the fact that we did love and that we would know what to do, or rather, not do the next time love comes our way again.  Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol.  I hope this helps!

Ryan

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #22 on: Jan 12, 2006, 03:40 PM »
Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol.  I hope this helps!

 :-*
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Offline chameau

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #23 on: Jan 12, 2006, 04:24 PM »
Quote
Howdy tpe and frog123,

Yes, that's what makes BBM so heartwarming, even though those two characters never say it directly to one another, they don't have to.  We could see that both of them love each other deeply, that's why they keep going to BBM all those many years.  Yet, like you said, as much as their love raises Ennis up, it also crushes him in the end which we all felt as well. 

I'm guessing that this film will appeal to people, such as frog123 and I, who have loved, but have been crushed by it even though we still love that special somebody.  And no, frog123, you did love that special one enough or else you would not have such strong feelings for him to this day.  But sadly, you are also right in the fact that we were not strong enough to maintain a relationship despite of that love.  I guess we should celebrate the fact that we did love and that we would know what to do, or rather, not do the next time love comes our way again.  Besides, it's better to have love and lost than to have never loved at all, lol.  I hope this helps!

Ryan

Ryan,

All your postings move me so much.  You are one good writer and a beautiful and sensible soul.  It's a privilege to meet people like you on this forum. I love you all!

Pierre  :-*
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #24 on: Jan 13, 2006, 12:53 PM »
I've added this song to my playlists, it's a song I've listened to a couple of years ago and the lyrics of it now made sense to me when I think about BBM and this post.  The song seems to sound so sad and now I understand why as I imagine the scenes of BBM play in my head.  To me, this is Ennis's song to Jack.  Tell me what you think.  ^^

KOKORO (Heart)
Vocal: Joanne Hogg

I've been watching you a while
Since you walked into my life
Monday morning, when first I heard you speak to me
I was too shy to let you know
Much too scared to let my feelings show
but you shielded me and that was the beginning

Now at last we can talk in another way
And though I try, "I love you" is just so hard to say
If I only could be strong, and say the words I feel

My beating heart begins to race
When I turn to see your face
I remember that sweet dream which you told to me.
I wanted just to be with you
So we could make the dream come true
And you smiled at me and that was the beginning

And now at last we can talk in another way
And though I try, "I love you" is just so hard to say
If I only could be strong, and say the words I feel

  Tell me what you're thinking of
  Tell me if you love me now
  I had so much I longed to ask you
  But now the chance has gone
  While your picture fades each day
  In my heart the memory stays
  Glowing bright, you're always smiling
  And I will hold you close

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #25 on: Jan 13, 2006, 01:02 PM »
Opps, a correction to the title, although Kokoro means Heart in Japanese, it means in this context, "The Words I Feel"

Offline Angelove

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #26 on: Jan 13, 2006, 01:05 PM »
And to listen to this song, you may download it for free from this site,

http://gh.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/78

I hope that you'll like it.  ^^

Offline tpe

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #27 on: Jan 13, 2006, 01:15 PM »
My beating heart begins to race
When I turn to see your face
I remember that sweet dream which you told to me.
I wanted just to be with you
So we could make the dream come true
And you smiled at me and that was the beginning

Compare this with the following passage in the story. :)


Stars bit through the wavy heat layers above the fire. Ennis's breath came slow and quiet, he hummed, rocked a little in the sparklight and Jack leaned against the steady heartbeat, the vibrations of the humming like faint electricity and, standing, he fell into sleep that was not sleep but something else drowsy and tranced...

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #28 on: Jan 13, 2006, 03:50 PM »
Opps, a correction to the title, although Kokoro means Heart in Japanese, it means in this context, "The Words I Feel"

It's lovely , thankx for posting! :-*
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Offline Liam56

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Re: Anger and Sympathy towards Ennis
« Reply #29 on: Jan 14, 2006, 03:45 AM »
I gather it would be a facile thing for me to say that I have more anger than sympathy for Ennis.  Why couldn't he just commit to Jack, to someone who loved him so much?  But I have both anger and sympathy for Ennis.  If many of us are honest, we have kept people at bay, have not responded in kind to the overtures of love that others have extended, and have been fearful of any risk-taking.  I feel sympathy for him because of the times in which he lived, the traumatic experiences he endured as a child, and some of the emotional baggage he carried.  At the end of the movie I feel his pain and his emptiness.  Many of us, and I speak specifically about myself, are often an unhappy mixture of openness and reticence at the same time, so I must admit that I harbor both resentment and sympathy simultaneously for Ennis.  I understand him well.  I am Ennis.