Author Topic: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler  (Read 115492 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #270 on: May 12, 2008, 07:41 AM »
I agree MG. Ennis could react in two ways:

1. He can think now that life is so short and precious to live it with fears, that he has to stay with Jack before loosing him forever. He can realize now that he really needs and loves Jack and he should be with him, because you don't know when or how death can catch you, and you can regret of it if you have not spent your life with the one you love because of your fears.

2. Ennis can think now that he was right all the time. Maybe Jack was lucky this time, but maybe he will be not the next time......And now that Ennis really knows how much he loves Jack and how much Jack's death could hurt, he could think that living together is not worth of Jack's death. So maybe he could think that he better stay away from Jack, though it hurt Jack and himself, and being alone, then see Jack hurting again, or worse, dead. After suffering the unbearable pain of almost loosing Jack, Ennis could see that he can NOT risk Jack's life again.

Like MG said I think It could go either way.

I agree with this, especially on #2.  Ennis may think that riking Jack's (and his) life would not have been worth it.


Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #271 on: May 12, 2008, 07:46 AM »
I really believe that Jack was murdered by homophobes. I believe in the end, Ennis realized that they would have been safer together, and that it would have been better to live together even if they were killed, because that way they would have spent more time with each other, than those stolen moments they had once or twice a year in the middle of nowhere. Because if you add it all up, in the course of twenty years, how much time did Ennis and Jack spend together? It was probably about six or seven months total time. Ennis in the end feels cheated by his own self.

I do agree that with Jack's death, Ennis may very well have regreyted not sharing a life together.  But as some of the others here had noted, perhaps there would have been a difference in Ennis's reaction had Jack survived.  Either he would have been indeed pushed to share a life with Jack, for fear of losing him again, or he would have decided that he and Jack would be safer not being together... It is hard to decide which way Ennis may have taken, but surely, there could have been a strong difference in his reaction had Jack survived and had not died.


Offline aintfoolin

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #272 on: May 14, 2008, 01:38 AM »
I do agree that with Jack's death, Ennis may very well have regreyted not sharing a life together.  But as some of the others here had noted, perhaps there would have been a difference in Ennis's reaction had Jack survived.  Either he would have been indeed pushed to share a life with Jack, for fear of losing him again, or he would have decided that he and Jack would be safer not being together... It is hard to decide which way Ennis may have taken, but surely, there could have been a strong difference in his reaction had Jack survived and had not died.



 Exactly, any way he looks at it now had Jack survived, he 'd see risks. He could live with Jack and take his chances of an attack on both or let it all go and walk away, only to have Jack  vulnerable and attacked again. I feel he saw the light when Jack died. It could go either way, yes,  but the whole purpose of being apart was to keep their love secret and them safe.. Some one now knows and has tried to kill Jack over it. Assuming the relationship continues, I don't see Ennis deserting Jack. His friend,  his lover,his lil darlin again leaving him vulnerable. If he got that second chance after thinking Jack had been killed and knowing the price he paid for not being together,  to protect him ,there is no question in my mind that he would never, ever let Jack go again.  He was devastated, destroyed, like zankou said. Like if he could only turn back the hands of time. He'd  go to Lightening Flat, face Jack's parents , this time with Jack in tow. Face any tire iron together with Jack just to show Jack he loved him. After what he'd gone through? if Jack himself said so,  and would still have him,  I feel he'd do anything for Jack, give anything,  or take any risk to be with him again.  He'd learned his lesson.
I think Jack's near-death experience would be the cataylist for that change in Ennis Jack so desperatly wanted. Sure, he had his fears, but I think he'd  now find them unworthy of standing in the way of their love at that point. If they went down, at least they went down fighting together. Jack gave Ennis several second chances, This one would be the  one offer Ennis cannot refuse,  way too much at stake. IMHO.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #273 on: May 14, 2008, 07:43 AM »
Exactly, any way he looks at it now had Jack survived, he 'd see risks. He could live with Jack and take his chances of an attack on both or let it all go and walk away, only to have Jack  vulnerable and attacked again. I feel he saw the light when Jack died. It could go either way, yes,  but the whole purpose of being apart was to keep their love secret and them safe.. Some one now knows and has tried to kill Jack over it. Assuming the relationship continues, I don't see Ennis deserting Jack. His friend,  his lover,his lil darlin again leaving him vulnerable. If he got that second chance after thinking Jack had been killed and knowing the price he paid for not being together,  to protect him ,there is no question in my mind that he would never, ever let Jack go again.  He was devastated, destroyed, like zankou said. Like if he could only turn back the hands of time. He'd  go to Lightening Flat, face Jack's parents , this time with Jack in tow. Face any tire iron together with Jack just to show Jack he loved him. After what he'd gone through? if Jack himself said so,  and would still have him,  I feel he'd do anything for Jack, give anything,  or take any risk to be with him again.  He'd learned his lesson.
I think Jack's near-death experience would be the cataylist for that change in Ennis Jack so desperatly wanted. Sure, he had his fears, but I think he'd  now find them unworthy of standing in the way of their love at that point. If they went down, at least they went down fighting together. Jack gave Ennis several second chances, This one would be the  one offer Ennis cannot refuse,  way too much at stake. IMHO.

Then the whole tragedy of the story/film was that there was no second chance.  This is perhaps all the more painful, because we feel that something ever so slightly did change after the Last Confrontation, so that had Jack survived the attack, perhaps the shock would have been enough to pull Ennis through.  The fact that they were so close only accentuates the tragedy.


babytammy7

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #274 on: May 14, 2008, 03:52 PM »
Agree AF and Thomas. Beautiful posts, and so sad too, because now Ennis will never have that new chance, and we'll never know... :\'( :\'( :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #275 on: May 15, 2008, 08:02 AM »
Agree AF and Thomas. Beautiful posts, and so sad too, because now Ennis will never have that new chance, and we'll never know... :\'( :\'( :\'(

I think he realized this -- and this is why he did seem to ever so slightly change for the better (at least in the film).

So, we can say that it was not a total tragedy.  There is a vision of hope of things to come -- even if what was lost is forever lost.

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #276 on: May 15, 2008, 11:01 AM »
I think he realized this -- and this is why he did seem to ever so slightly change for the better (at least in the film).

So, we can say that it was not a total tragedy.  There is a vision of hope of things to come -- even if what was lost is forever lost.

Well,they say that from everything-even if it's the most tragic happenning,and/or precisely for this...-we can learn a lesson;that everything,no matter how negative could be,has its positive side.And maybe Ennis found that lesson in a positive sense although he couldn't' t already apply it to his own case.Sad,however¡. :\'(
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
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Offline aintfoolin

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #277 on: May 15, 2008, 11:57 AM »
Well,they say that from everything-even if it's the most tragic happenning,and/or precisely for this...-we can learn a lesson;that everything,no matter how negative could be,has its positive side.And maybe Ennis found that lesson in a positive sense although he couldn't' t already apply it to his own case.Sad,however¡. :\'(

 I feel that Ennis may have sought to reconcile himself over Jack's death by coming to Jack's parents and asking for the ashes so he can carry out Jack's wishes. Certainly, he had to feel obligated to do so , some redeeming quality gesture for himself for the guilt he surely felt. Then he finds the shirts. How does he redeem himself now? Now that he knows how deeply Jack's love was  felt for him?  and it takes Jack dying to make him realize what he's lost. . How could he possibly redeem himself in the face of these sacred symbols of their Love?  I don't feel he had a choice except  to do what he did. To take the shirts from Jack's closet,   reverse them ,and place them in his own closet where he felt they now belonged.,completing /closing some sacred, eternal circle around their love, and  then made a vow to  himself and Jack that he will use the lessons  Jack had taught him. That is to embrace love for his own sake, in all it's forms.  My take on it.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #278 on: May 16, 2008, 07:49 AM »
Well,they say that from everything-even if it's the most tragic happenning,and/or precisely for this...-we can learn a lesson;that everything,no matter how negative could be,has its positive side.And maybe Ennis found that lesson in a positive sense although he couldn't' t already apply it to his own case.Sad,however¡. :\'(

Yes, it doesn't change the fact that it is a tragedy.    For Ennis, the lesson learned might not have been worth it.  Is this too strong a statement?


Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #279 on: May 16, 2008, 07:52 AM »
I feel that Ennis may have sought to reconcile himself over Jack's death by coming to Jack's parents and asking for the ashes so he can carry out Jack's wishes. Certainly, he had to feel obligated to do so , some redeeming quality gesture for himself for the guilt he surely felt. Then he finds the shirts. How does he redeem himself now? Now that he knows how deeply Jack's love was  felt for him?  and it takes Jack dying to make him realize what he's lost. . How could he possibly redeem himself in the face of these sacred symbols of their Love?  I don't feel he had a choice except  to do what he did. To take the shirts from Jack's closet,   reverse them ,and place them in his own closet where he felt they now belonged.,completing /closing some sacred, eternal circle around their love, and  then made a vow to  himself and Jack that he will use the lessons  Jack had taught him. That is to embrace love for his own sake, in all it's forms.  My take on it.

Yes!  I felt the same way.  His visit to LF was a sort of penance -- at least this is how I view it.  He of course didn't expect to find the shirts, but I am sure that he sensed there was something about Jack that he needed to find, if only to be at peace with himself -- not knowing for sure how Jack died and how unresolved things were for either of them.  The visit was in seach of some resolution, IMO.


babytammy7

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #280 on: May 16, 2008, 12:25 PM »
Yes, it doesn't change the fact that it is a tragedy.    For Ennis, the lesson learned might not have been worth it.  Is this too strong a statement?



Totally agree, Thomas. Jack's life was more important than any lesson.....even if it was a lesson of love, because Jack was love himself.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 09:20 AM by Baby Tammy »

Offline myprivatejack

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #281 on: May 16, 2008, 05:52 PM »
Yes, it doesn't change the fact that it is a tragedy.    For Ennis, the lesson learned might not have been worth it.  Is this too strong a statement?
No,Thomas,I think this is not too strong to say;it' s true,it's reality...Lessons don' t serve for anything if can be applied in something more than mere theory.And it's hard when not being able to apply them means loose your love,this love you've been always letting"for some time after,and after,and after" during years and years.When you see you can't change your mind,even if you want to,lessons learned are a sad relief...

Totally agree, Thomas. Jack's life was more important than any lesson.....even it was a lesson of love, because Jack was love himself.

Beautiful,Tammy¡  ^f^ But I repeat that the lessons of love don't worth anything if love is gone...
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline aintfoolin

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #282 on: May 16, 2008, 11:25 PM »
Yes, it doesn't change the fact that it is a tragedy.    For Ennis, the lesson learned might not have been worth it.  Is this too strong a statement?



 It may not be too strong a statement tpe. The lesson Ennis learned  has great worth , personal promise for him in the future, but when it's measured against the way he had to learn it, does not offer much comfort or ease his pain... At least, not for a while anyway. He does'nt get a second chance. Yes, he has the shirts, a symbol of Jack's undying love, but it's also the friendship, all the little things about Jack that will haunt him the most, a gesture, a smile... even a smell  or taste will remind him, Alma Jr's wedding certainly will.  I  doubt, Ennis could find anything positive about the situation for some time. With time, he may find a forgiveness for himself , but he'll never be allowed to  forget what could have been.  " Indeed, " what profit a man to gain the whole world, and loose his soul?" What did Ennis gain in exchange for his fear? Jack is dead, and I don't think he felt anything worth that loss.  :\'( :(Thanx.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

babytammy7

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #283 on: May 17, 2008, 09:21 AM »
It may not be too strong a statement tpe. The lesson Ennis learned  has great worth , personal promise for him in the future, but when it's measured against the way he had to learn it, does not offer much comfort or ease his pain... At least, not for a while anyway. He does'nt get a second chance. Yes, he has the shirts, a symbol of Jack's undying love, but it's also the friendship, all the little things about Jack that will haunt him the most, a gesture, a smile... even a smell  or taste will remind him, Alma Jr's wedding certainly will.  I  doubt, Ennis could find anything positive about the situation for some time. With time, he may find a forgiveness for himself , but he'll never be allowed to  forget what could have been.  " Indeed, " what profit a man to gain the whole world, and loose his soul?" What did Ennis gain in exchange for his fear? Jack is dead, and I don't think he felt anything worth that loss.  :\'( :(Thanx.

Agree.... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #284 on: May 19, 2008, 07:26 AM »
Thanks friends. 

I do feel sometimes that had there been some certainly in Jack's death, there would have been greater closure for Ennis.   But life has more of uncertainties and less of guarantees, no? 


Offline Anthony

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Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #285 on: Aug 15, 2008, 10:15 AM »
I never understood if Jack died to a tire blowing up in his face or was he really beaten to death?  I just thought the beating shown in the movie was Ennis just imagining the worst thing happening to Jack just like when he was a child and saw the body of that man who lived near him who was brutally beaten & hung. 

My next question is... I thought Jack and Ennis met every month for a fishing trip, but towards the end of the movie at their final meeting together, Jack said he wasn't fine with just a couple of high altitude times with Ennis every year.  Did their meetings start to get more spread out as the years went on because of their work and faimilies squeezing them for time or were they still meeting monthly?

Finally, when Lureen and Jack went out to that restaurant with their friends and Jack and the guy were sitting on the bench outside waiting for their wives to come out, was that guy leading Jack to go out on a trip to his friend's cabin with sexual intentions or was he just being friendly?

BTW, sorry if these questions were asked before!

Anthony

babytammy7

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Re: Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #286 on: Aug 15, 2008, 10:35 AM »
Hi Anthony, welcome to the forum!!  ^f^

I'll try my best to answer your questions. Sorry for my English.

1. No one knows for sure how Jack died. Ang Lee, and especially Annie P. said that they wanted the ending to be ambiguous so everyone could choose the ending they felt like more true. Some people thinks that Ennis was just being paranoid once again, imagining that he was right all time and Jack died because of the tire irons like Earl. Some people think that Jack really was murdered because of that homophobic society Ennis always feared. But neither Annie nor Ang said what was the real death of Jack, and I think Annie said once that she even didn't know what was the truth.

2. Ennis and Jack had family and works, and so little time to be together. Ennis couldn't quit a job per month to spend a week with Jack, and Jack couldn't get a week holiday every month. I think no one can do that. They met three or twice a year during those 16 years of fishing trips, and we think that in those final years they maybe only got together twice or once a year.

3. Randall, the guy you ask about, was for sure flirting with Jack with the only purpose to have sex with him. Randall was the foreman Jack's dad talked to Ennis about when Jack died. Jack had a sexual relationship with Randall for about 4 or 5 years, and Jack's dad said that Jack was planning to get him to LF to live with him.

I hope this help.  ^f^ I'm sure more brokies will come here to answer your questions better than me.

Offline rimasworld

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Re: Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #287 on: Aug 15, 2008, 01:46 PM »
For me, I go back and forth about Jack's death. Some days it's just too hard for me to believe he was murdered. It's hard enough to think he was killed in some freak accident.

I think Ennis and Jack met as often as they could manage. We know Ennis quit jobs to be with Jack and Jack working in a family business gave him more flexibility to take off.

As for another lover on the side, well I don't quite buy that, otherwise I don't think Jack would have been so pained in the final confrontation when he told Ennis about needing something he didn't hardly ever get (companionship, sex. etc) If he had some lover waiting in the wings close to home I don't believe he would have made such a statement. I think he loved Ennis too much to have had another full blown affair. As far as what he told his folks, maybe like Lureen said, it might have been some pretend thing Jack made up in his head. JMO 

babytammy7

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Re: Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #288 on: Aug 15, 2008, 02:17 PM »
Well, if you read the original script, the one Ang Lee used you can see that Jack was in fact with Randall, Jack had another sexual relationship with a man. It's not me who says that, it was Ang and Diana O. and Heath and Jake.

Even there is a deleted scene where we can see Randall and Jack together in Jack's truck.

Annie wrote in her SS that Jack was seeing another guys beside Ennis.

So, yes, even if that is so painful, our Jack was having sex with another guy, and if we read the script we see that Jack was seeing that guy for over 4 years. Maybe you can get a copy of the film's script. Yeah, Jack loved Ennis with all his heart and soul, and that's why I love so much Jack, but that doesn't mean that Jack was not having sex with other guys. Jack needed so bad Ennis, something he couldn't get, so he tried to find someone or something to try to stand all those hard months between trips. Jack was sure with Randall a lot of time, years, but he loved only Ennis. He never quit loving him. The other relationships were only sex.

And well, Ennis was quitting jobs and Jack sure travelled a lot, but the once again you can read in the OS and you can read interviews of Ang and Annie and Diana and the actors where you can find that they really see each other twice or three times a year. You know the very Jack said that in the confrontation scene. Very sad thing, but so real.

Offline tpe

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Re: Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #289 on: Aug 15, 2008, 03:36 PM »
I think all of us would agree that as far as the movie and the screenplay goes, it was clear that Jack had affairs with other men. 

If I understand correctly, rimasworld's objection centers on whether Jack had something deeper with anyone else besides Ennis.

First, we note that when Jack tells Ennis about "needing something he didn't hardly ever get", he is not denying the fact that he has had affairs with other men. 

Have you been to Mexico, Jack...

Hell, I've been to Mexico. Is that a problem?
   

So "needing something he didn't hardly ever get" is not a denial of having affairs; rather, it is an attempt of justifying to Ennis why he has them.  The implication is that if Ennis would agree to live with him, then all such affairs would cease.

I think all of us would agree that Jack's greatest and only love was Ennis.  However, it is possible that, after the Final Confrontation, Jack relaized that he can't have the the life he wanted if he continued to wait for Ennis.  Hence, his possible arrangement to live with Randall was made in order to pursue his dreams of a sweet life, even if it meant not having it with Ennis.  How many time in real life do people forsake what they truly desire, in order to bring a dream to fruition.  THis is the case with Jack.  Living a life with another person didn't mean that he ever stopped loving Ennis, and it didn't mean that Ennis was no longer the first in his heart.


babytammy7

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Re: Jack murdered? ...and other lingering questions
« Reply #290 on: Aug 15, 2008, 03:44 PM »
How many time in real life do people forsake what they truly desire, in order to bring a dream to fruition.  THis is the case with Jack.  Living a life with another person didn't mean that he ever stopped loving Ennis, and it didn't mean that Ennis was no longer the first in his heart.

Totally agree with this, Thomas. Thank you so much.  ^f^

Offline chameau

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #291 on: Aug 15, 2008, 05:38 PM »
Hi Anthony and welcome in, I merged your topic to this existing one so you could read what was already discussed about this matter :)
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2008, 09:52 PM by chameau »
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Offline Anthony

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #292 on: Aug 15, 2008, 09:36 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome and merging my post into the thread! :)  This definately shed a lot of light on the questions that I had running through my mind after finally getting around to seeing the movie. 

Offline tpe

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #293 on: Aug 18, 2008, 07:50 AM »
Thanks Anthony for bringing back this topic.  The answer, of course, to what happened to Jack and what plans he was about to set in motion will never be fully known.  That's what dirves the continuing discussion, and make us appreciate the fluxion of uncertainties that we call life.

Thanks Tammy.  :)


Offline o7o69o

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Jack's Death
« Reply #294 on: Mar 02, 2009, 12:52 AM »
Hello all! I'm new to this whole thing and I've never really understood forums and all but when I read about this website about this wonderful movie, I couldn't stay away.

My question is, "How did Jack die?"

1. I read somewhere that he could have really died from the tire iron hitting him in the face and Ennis just thought of the worse since it was part of his imagination.

2. Jack's father-in-law (I forgot his name) found out/knew about Jack being Gay so he got him killed.

3. He was killed the way that Ennis imagined it and it was just covered up.


I also have another question. When I watch the movie for the third time I caught the scene when Jack was sitting on a bench outside of the party with his wife's friend's husband and he mentioned that they should "get away" so does that mean he was Gay as well? Later, it was mention that he got divorced to his wife and was planning to move in with Jack.

Was Jack unfaithful?

Jack going to Mexico, "fixing up his dad's farm with the other man"?


It leaves many questions to me and I've never got a chance to read the book. But I might not be back on here for awhile or forever so if you need to reach me:

myspace.com/o7o69o
youtube.com/o7o69oPRODUCTIONS

In case anyone might be wondering, I'm Bisexual.  ;)

BYE!  <^(

Offline tpe

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Re: Jack's Death
« Reply #295 on: Mar 02, 2009, 09:02 AM »
Hello all! I'm new to this whole thing and I've never really understood forums and all but when I read about this website about this wonderful movie, I couldn't stay away.

My question is, "How did Jack die?"

1. I read somewhere that he could have really died from the tire iron hitting him in the face and Ennis just thought of the worse since it was part of his imagination.

2. Jack's father-in-law (I forgot his name) found out/knew about Jack being Gay so he got him killed.

3. He was killed the way that Ennis imagined it and it was just covered up.


I also have another question. When I watch the movie for the third time I caught the scene when Jack was sitting on a bench outside of the party with his wife's friend's husband and he mentioned that they should "get away" so does that mean he was Gay as well? Later, it was mention that he got divorced to his wife and was planning to move in with Jack.

Was Jack unfaithful?

Jack going to Mexico, "fixing up his dad's farm with the other man"?


It leaves many questions to me and I've never got a chance to read the book. But I might not be back on here for awhile or forever so if you need to reach me:

myspace.com/o7o69o
youtube.com/o7o69oPRODUCTIONS

In case anyone might be wondering, I'm Bisexual.  ;)

BYE!  <^(

Hello, o7o69o.  And welcome.  :)

There is a a very long old thread devoted to this topic.  I hav merged your thread with this old one.  I hope you don't mind.  The old thread is about 10 pages long, and read the previous posts at your leisure!  Some of the opinions are quite interesting...

Let us know your reaction to some of them.  It is good that you resurrected this wonderful topic, so very much at the heart of BBM.

Offline Mahogany

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #296 on: Sep 27, 2014, 05:37 AM »
Jack's death is not ambiguous, it's explained in the movie that the murder scene was just Ennis' imagination.
It took more than 10 views for me to be 100% sure, paying attention to each small detail...

Ang Lee has hidden it very well...


Offline bluemountainsky

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Re: How did Jack die? - possible spoiler
« Reply #297 on: Sep 29, 2014, 05:50 PM »
Jack's death is not ambiguous, it's explained in the movie that the murder scene was just Ennis' imagination.
It took more than 10 views for me to be 100% sure, paying attention to each small detail...

Ang Lee has hidden it very well...



Hmm...I don't think it was meant to be ambiguous but I do believe that sadly Jack was beaten to death.  :(
I remember the first time I saw the movie, I found it confusing, and I honestly didn't understand that part. Ennis was talking on the phone with Lureen, and then suddenly it showed the images of Jack getting beaten with tire irons. I know now that it means that Ennis knew in his mind, he had that feeling that Jack was murdered. But I don't think it was just his imagination. I remember an interview with Ang Lee and the actors where he said that they actually filmed the scene that is supposed to be right before Jack was killed.

The people that kill him see him around town with Randall and then that's how they know he's gay and so they follow him. They also filmed it where Lureen says on the phone outright that she knew about Jack being gay. However they decided not to use those scenes. But I don't think it's so they could make it ambiguous. I think it's just another thing that this film does so well. A lot of what happened is not shown, and a technique the movie relies on is to show a little bit and then have the viewer put two and two together and figure out what happened. They don't have to tell us and show us everything for us to know what happened. From the hints we're given, we can figure them out. Both in the short story and the film, it's not what Lureen said to Ennis on the phone, it's how she said that implies that Jack was murdered. Her voice is described as being cold, like she had found out something about her husband. Also, at the end, it's clear she's holding back tears.

 That is why I believe that Lureen found about Jack being gay because of the fact that Jack was murdered. That is how she finally found out after all those years, even though I think there had been rumors going around about Jack for a long time, Lureen was too busy with her work to really pay attention to what was going on with Jack. It is therefore only after he dies that she learns the truth. And then Ennis calls her, and she figures out that Ennis was not just a fishing buddy, he was the man Jack had been in relationship with all those years. She finally understood why Jack took all those trips to Wyoming, why Ennis never came to visit him in Texas instead, and what Jack had been doing all those years. She must have felt completely embarrassed and betrayed that her entire marriage was a sham from day one. Alma accidentally found out about early on, but ironically Lureen, a much more knowledgeable woman, didn't realize. I think only part of the story she told Ennis was true...the part about Jack having a flat tire and trying to pump it back up...but the other part about how he died wasn't. I think what really happened is those guys in the cutscene came across Jack and offered to help him with his car trouble as a trick. Jack probably accepted a ride in their truck, and once they had him there, instead of driving to where they told Jack they would go, they went to a field or empty area instead and there they beat him to death. Unfortunately, although Ennis was sometimes bordering on paranoid, and he was so afraid that he let that fear ruin his life, his fears were not just his imagination.

Unfortunately things like that do happen, and it's a sad and painful reality in this world. Matthew Shepard, a young gay man,  was beaten to death in Wyoming in the year 1998. Another young man was beaten and then deliberately run over by a car in Texas less than a year earlier...in 1997. That kid wasn't even gay, but his attackers targeted him because he was different from them and called him "faggot" just because he wasn't a "macho" jock like they were. There are some horribly bigoted people out there in this world. Sadly, Ennis's fears were all too real...although I do believe he and Jack would have been safe if only they had run away to a big city and lived together. There they would be much more anonymous and the whole town wouldn't know their personal life. I think Ennis realized that at the end. But living in a more rural, conservative society, it was a very real possibility that homophobic monsters would come beat them to death.  :(
« Last Edit: Sep 29, 2014, 11:05 PM by bluemountainsky »
"I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime;
In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside."