Author Topic: Ennis's Tears? (Read 31632 times)

rabjr1 · « **on:** Apr 26, 2006, 06:11 PM »

Anyone notice if that is a tear running down Ennis's cheek as he ascends the stairs to Jack's room at his parents house?

tpe · « **Reply #1 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 06:16 PM »

Indeed no. It would be nice to have a screenshot.

I noticed it only after he put down the toy horse...

shieldmaid · « **Reply #2 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 06:29 PM »

Hmm, interesting point. Every time I watch the movie I'm struck by how many times Ennis actually does cry--after he and Jack come down from BBM, the last time he and Jack are together, at the Twist house, at the end, maybe even in the SNIT. He is a more sensitive soul than many might suspect.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #3 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 06:58 PM »

The man is a boiling pot of emotions, no maybe a pressure cooker, the emotions are boiling in him but kept so tight that they can only explode out of him.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #4 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 07:59 PM »

No I didn't notice that. I'll have to check on my next viewing.
I'm sure he was glad to be out of that room with the father- after hearing about the ranch neighbor I'm sure it was even harder to hold back the tears.

Valandil Eluch · « **Reply #5 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 08:01 PM »

Quote from: rabjr1 on Apr 26, 2006, 06:11 PM

Anyone notice if that is a tear running down Ennis's cheek as he ascends the stairs to Jack's room at his parents house?

I did he was no longer able to hide his feelings he was destroyed in his insides and he was no longer capable of surpress his tears anymore like he did on previous scenes

Patriot1 · « **Reply #6 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 08:36 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Apr 26, 2006, 06:16 PM

Indeed no. It would be nice to have a screenshot.

I noticed it only after he put down the toy horse...

Yes, I have to agree with tpe here. I just watched the movie frame by frame and could see no tears until he puts the toy horse down. I did notice that when he came down to the kitchen his eyes were all red and watery and it appeared to me he had been upstairs for a while after we left him in the closet where he had a good cry for himself.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #7 on:** Apr 26, 2006, 08:43 PM »

it may not have been a tear maybe a track of a tear? there is a definate something on the dvd like a track of a tear on his face from the middle of his left eye down.

ps country song "Tracks of My Tears" best version by Linda Rondstadt

saw LR live at the Troubador on Santa Monica BLVD about 1971

Patriot1 · « **Reply #8 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 01:47 AM »

Quote from: rabjr1 on Apr 26, 2006, 08:43 PM

it may not have been a tear maybe a track of a tear? there is a definate something on the dvd like a track of a tear on his face from the middle of his left eye down.

ps country song "Tracks of My Tears" best version by Linda Rondstadt

saw LR live at the Troubador on Santa Monica BLVD about 1971

Nope, can't see a thing rabjr1. Can you provide a pic?

NoReins · « **Reply #9 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 02:05 AM »

I've still only seen this bit once (had to stop watching the dvd last night as I became an emotional wreck as soon as I heard Jack say "sometimes I miss you so much") but I don't remember Ennis crying until he was in Jack's room.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #10 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 02:11 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 27, 2006, 02:05 AM

I've still only seen this bit once (had to stop watching the dvd last night as I became an emotional wreck as soon as I heard Jack say "sometimes I miss you so much") but I don't remember Ennis crying until he was in Jack's room.

Me either NoReins. When he picked up the horse and rider and then set it down and looked up, that is the first time I saw tears in and under his eyes. And I have looked at this whole scene frame by frame. But, rabjr1 may see something I am not looking for.

Heaven knows Ennis had something to cry about. He was just told that Jack had found someone else.

NoReins · « **Reply #11 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 02:35 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 02:11 AM

Heaven knows Ennis had something to cry about. He was just told that Jack had found someone else.

Yeah, but that's not why he's crying, is it? He's crying for everything he had with Jack and has now lost, because he finally realises how much he loved Jack and because he wishes he could turn back the clock and have another chance to get it right and tell Jack how he feels. That's my take, anyway.

I don't think the "other man" thing impacts too much on how Ennis feels at that point. Yes, it jolts him when John Twist says it, but, to me, Jack's mum's hand on Ennis's shoulder reassures him, telling him "don't listen to him, my boy loved you". But that's another discussion....

Patriot1 · « **Reply #12 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 03:04 AM »

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 27, 2006, 02:35 AM

Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 02:11 AM
Heaven knows Ennis had something to cry about. He was just told that Jack had found someone else.

Yeah, but that's not why he's crying, is it? He's crying for everything he had with Jack and has now lost, because he finally realises how much he loved Jack and because he wishes he could turn back the clock and have another chance to get it right and tell Jack how he feels. That's my take, anyway.

I don't think the "other man" thing impacts too much on how Ennis feels at that point. Yes, it jolts him when John Twist says it, but, to me, Jack's mum's hand on Ennis's shoulder reassures him, telling him "don't listen to him, my boy loved you". But that's another discussion....

Well, now you are talking about two different time periods I believe. I don't believe he knew or would not admit to knowing he was in love with Jack until he found the shirts. That is why I always call the shirt scene the turning point. This is why I flipped when I heard him say 'I love you." To me, THIS is when he came around and realized and/or admitted he was actually in love with Jack. There is no doubt in my mind he loved Jack and he knew and I think admitted to that in the things he did for Jack. But, when he saw the shirts intertwined there in Jack's closet for twenty years, he knew how Jack felt and how he felt also.

But, rabjr1 is talking about Ennis walking up the stairs and seeing a tear or tear track. This was before the shirts of course. So, if there is a tear or tear track it had to have come from old John Twist.

<OT> I don't want to start a whole new thread for this but I thought it was interesting how Ennis looked John Twist right in the eyes when Twist was talking. This is something he rarely did, look people in the eyes, when he was spoken to. He always seemed to hide under his hat.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #13 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 06:29 AM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 03:04 AM

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 27, 2006, 02:35 AM
Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 02:11 AM
Heaven knows Ennis had something to cry about. He was just told that Jack had found someone else.

Yeah, but that's not why he's crying, is it? He's crying for everything he had with Jack and has now lost, because he finally realises how much he loved Jack and because he wishes he could turn back the clock and have another chance to get it right and tell Jack how he feels. That's my take, anyway.

I don't think the "other man" thing impacts too much on how Ennis feels at that point. Yes, it jolts him when John Twist says it, but, to me, Jack's mum's hand on Ennis's shoulder reassures him, telling him "don't listen to him, my boy loved you". But that's another discussion....

Well, now you are talking about two different time periods I believe. I don't believe he knew or would not admit to knowing he was in love with Jack until he found the shirts. That is why I always call the shirt scene the turning point. This is why I flipped when I heard him say 'I love you." To me, THIS is when he came around and realized and/or admitted he was actually in love with Jack. There is no doubt in my mind he loved Jack and he knew and I think admitted to that in the things he did for Jack. But, when he saw the shirts intertwined there in Jack's closet for twenty years, he knew how Jack felt and how he felt also.

But, rabjr1 is talking about Ennis walking up the stairs and seeing a tear or tear track. This was before the shirts of course. So, if there is a tear or tear track it had to have come from old John Twist.

<
Quote
OT> I don't want to start a whole new thread for this but I thought it was interesting how Ennis looked John Twist right in the eyes when Twist was talking. This is something he rarely did, look people in the eyes, when he was spoken to. He always seemed to hide under his hat.

Wow, now that is something I didn't notice until you pointed it out. Maybe he realized that John Twist was really a weak tyrant who had no power over him?

rabjr1 · « **Reply #14 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 06:34 AM »

it may just be a reflection of the light but I think I see something like a tear track on Ennis cheeck as he walks up the starcase. I know he doesn't cry while in Jack's room at least not out loud.

I have tinninis (constant ringing sometimes roaring) in both ears and onset of tone deafness (another thing I can blame on my parents) so some of the dialogue people are reporting hearing I am not getting. I do hear the mumblinging in the 2nd tent scene but can hardly make out what they are saying.

chameau · « **Reply #15 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 12:21 PM »

The only tear I noticed is when he is in the bedroom, sorry the screencap is not very clear

Patriot1 · « **Reply #16 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 12:48 PM »

Quote from: chameau on Apr 27, 2006, 12:21 PM

The only tear I noticed is when he is in the bedroom, sorry the screencap is not very clear

Yes, he had just set the horse down and started toward the window to open it. That is the first time I saw any tears or tear tracks.

NoReins · « **Reply #17 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 02:21 PM »

I've just watched this twice over and I'm in agreement that the first time we see Ennis cry is when he sets the cowboy down on the desk.

Mind you, I have to admit it wasn't so easy to tell since I was watching it through my own tears :-[

Patriot1 · « **Reply #18 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 02:33 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 27, 2006, 02:21 PM

I've just watched this twice over and I'm in agreement that the first time we see Ennis cry is when he sets the cowboy down on the desk.

Mind you, I have to admit it wasn't so easy to tell since I was watching it through my own tears :-[

Yes, with chest heaving from sobs and tears falling like Niagra Falls, it is very difficult to see, isn't it.

chameau · « **Reply #19 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 03:14 PM »

Quote from: NoReins on Apr 27, 2006, 02:21 PM

I've just watched this twice over and I'm in agreement that the first time we see Ennis cry is when he sets the cowboy down on the desk.

Mind you, I have to admit it wasn't so easy to tell since I was watching it through my own tears :-[

Yup! Same here, I was lucky enough to spot this during a theater viewing, bigger screen helped.

Allyce · « **Reply #20 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 05:09 PM »

I haven't noticed that, I'll look for it next time I watch it.

BBBOY · « **Reply #21 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 05:20 PM »

Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 03:04 AM

[<OT> I don't want to start a whole new thread for this but I thought it was interesting how Ennis looked John Twist right in the eyes when Twist was talking. This is something he rarely did, look people in the eyes, when he was spoken to. He always seemed to hide under his hat.

Excellent observation Patriot1. I never considered that until you just pointed it out to me. It now goes on my list of things to watch closer when I watch the DVD again. Thanks.

Patriot1 · « **Reply #22 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 05:24 PM »

Quote from: BBBOY on Apr 27, 2006, 05:20 PM

Quote from: Patriot1 on Apr 27, 2006, 03:04 AM
[<OT> I don't want to start a whole new thread for this but I thought it was interesting how Ennis looked John Twist right in the eyes when Twist was talking. This is something he rarely did, look people in the eyes, when he was spoken to. He always seemed to hide under his hat.

Excellent observation Patriot1. I never considered that until you just pointed it out to me. It now goes on my list of things to watch closer when I watch the DVD again. Thanks.

You bet BBBOY.

Sunflower79 · « **Reply #23 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 05:30 PM »

I am not sure I noticed the tears when he was going up the stairs..next time I watch the movie I will check it out..I did notice the tears when he was in the room though..I do agree that his tears represent his sadness over the loss of the one man that truly loved, and valued him and cared about him on all levels..he was sad that he didn't take the opportunity to be with him and live wtih him..he was crying for the lost moments maybe in the future that they could have...we don't see many emotions with Ennis since he keeps everything locked inside but when we do see emotions its powerful..of course I was crying right along with him in the movie..during that scene and when he sees the shirts and holds them close..

chameau · « **Reply #24 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 06:06 PM »

Quote from: Sunflower79 on Apr 27, 2006, 05:30 PM

I am not sure I noticed the tears when he was going up the stairs..next time I watch the movie I will check it out..I did notice the tears when he was in the room though..I do agree that his tears represent his sadness over the loss of the one man that truly loved, and valued him and cared about him on all levels..he was sad that he didn't take the opportunity to be with him and live wtih him..he was crying for the lost moments maybe in the future that they could have...we don't see many emotions with Ennis since he keeps everything locked inside but when we do see emotions its powerful..of course I was crying right along with him in the movie..during that scene and when he sees the shirts and holds them close..

No need to watch the movie, just go to ennisjack.com and read some postings

SOB! :'( :'( :'(

ksxks · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 06:24 PM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Apr 26, 2006, 07:59 PM

No I didn't notice that. I'll have to check on my next viewing.
I'm sure he was glad to be out of that room with the father- after hearing about the ranch neighbor I'm sure it was even harder to hold back the tears.

I saw his eyes full of tears, yes, but not a tear. One thing I loved, that just broke my heart (besides the dozens of things that just broke my heart) is how he and Jack's mother looked at each other, and his eyes were full of tears. That he would look right at her and let her see him cry... With his back to the father, of course. I loved the moments between Ennis and Jack's mother. The almost like sacred ritual of putting the shirts in the paper bag...

tpe · « **Reply #26 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 06:27 PM »

Quote from: ksxks on Apr 27, 2006, 06:24 PM

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Apr 26, 2006, 07:59 PM
No I didn't notice that. I'll have to check on my next viewing.
I'm sure he was glad to be out of that room with the father- after hearing about the ranch neighbor I'm sure it was even harder to hold back the tears.

I saw his eyes full of tears, yes, but not a tear. One thing I loved, that just broke my heart (besides the dozens of things that just broke my heart) is how he and Jack's mother looked at each other, and his eyes were full of tears. That he would look right at her and let her see him cry... With his back to the father, of course. I loved the moments between Ennis and Jack's mother. The almost like sacred ritual of putting the shirts in the paper bag...

Indeed this is so. His eyes glisten all throughout this scene.

When he comes down from upstairs, you know that his heart is bursting. You see it in his eyes.

mactwck · « **Reply #27 on:** Apr 27, 2006, 07:44 PM »

Jack's mother obviously knew about the shirts...that's why she told him to go upstairs. The looks she gives him when he comes down with the shirts is heartwarming knowing her son is going to be with Ennis forever. I am assuming Jack spoke of Ennis a lot, at least to his mother. It strikes me (OT, sorry) that when Ennis goes to brokeback all his possessions are in a paper sack, and when he leaves Jack's house all he takes away from brokeback is in a paper sack too. A full circle.

edgar · « **Reply #28 on:** Apr 28, 2006, 12:03 AM »

Quote from: mactwck on Apr 27, 2006, 07:44 PM

Jack's mother obviously knew about the shirts...that's why she told him to go upstairs. The looks she gives him when he comes down with the shirts is heartwarming knowing her son is going to be with Ennis forever. I am assuming Jack spoke of Ennis a lot, at least to his mother. It strikes me (OT, sorry) that when Ennis goes to brokeback all his possessions are in a paper sack, and when he leaves Jack's house all he takes away from brokeback is in a paper sack too. A full circle.

I like this, mactwck. We were discussing on another thread whether Mrs. Twist knew or not, but, this makes sense. In that little house, with not much to do but make cherry cake, I can't believe she didn't know every inch of the house by heart.
And if she didn't know something was special about the shirts, she surely would have washed them. I said on the other thread, maybe Jack had told her, "Mom, don't wash these."
Which of course was her first clue that something special was going on.

tpe · « **Reply #29 on:** Apr 28, 2006, 07:22 AM »

Quote from: edgar on Apr 28, 2006, 12:03 AM

I like this, mactwck. We were discussing on another thread whether Mrs. Twist knew or not, but, this makes sense. In that little house, with not much to do but make cherry cake, I can't believe she didn't know every inch of the house by heart.
And if she didn't know something was special about the shirts, she surely would have washed them. I said on the other thread, maybe Jack had told her, "Mom, don't wash these."
Which of course was her first clue that something special was going on.

Indeed the above must be true. You cannot show the compassion SHE showed at the sight of Ennis's tears if there was no UNDERSTANDING on her part of what all this meant to him.

Ennis's tears tell us a lot about her.

She knew that those tears were for the love of her son.

She cherished them accordingly.