Author Topic: The importance of Jack’s dad - possible spoilers  (Read 10011 times)

Offline bodystorm

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The importance of Jack’s dad - possible spoilers
« on: Jan 14, 2006, 03:02 AM »
As I watched the film for the third time the end scene with Jack’s father and Ennis had a huge impact on me. I have read these forums concurrently with viewing the film and have watched for the various nuances highlighted in this particular scene.

The mentioning of Randall or “The Ranch Neighbour” was something I wanted to have clear. In my mind I didn’t want to believe that Jack could compromise his love for Ennis.

Mr. Twist explains that like many other of his son’s ideas ‘never came to pass’ but I just think Jack couldn’t follow through the idea to move back to his parent’s place with Randall because he realised just how powerful his love for Ennis was.

Surely Jack wouldn’t suggest moving back and breaking up his marriage with Lureen unless he was completely sure that Randall could reciprocate. Afterall, twenty years with Ennis would make him wary of unrequited dreams. In the end, he just couldn’t do it. His love for Ennis was so powerful that no substitute could do, Randall wasn’t Ennis and never could be.

The final scene between Jack and Ennis confirmed to me that Jack realised how powerful their love is after Ennis’s break down. My thoughts got carried away and I imagined Jack eventually telling Randall about Ennis and it was perhaps this that got him killed.

I also read another user’s comments regarding the ashes. I do think it’s plausible that Ennis somehow found Jack’s ashes and took them with him along with the shirts. The scene with Ennis and Mrs Twist were just so touching, like some mutual understanding and reconciliation.

« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2006, 07:03 PM by tpe »

Offline ranchgal

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Re: The importance of Jack’s dad
« Reply #1 on: Jan 14, 2006, 03:45 PM »
Well I don't think Jack ever talked to Randall about going up to his father's place, any more than he ever asked Ennis----he may have talked about a place of their own---but he knew that his father would NEVER let any control or income come off his place to go to anyone else, including Jack.  So he was talking apples and oranges---to Ennis, and maybe Randall, they were talking a cow/calf spread of their own, bought in part with Father in law's money for leaving Lureen----but when he talked to his father--it was bringing someone to help with the home place---and neither option made much sense in the real world, esp. the financial end of it.  Jack liked the easy money of selling machinery, even if he didn't care for all the family stuff that went with it.   

IT was a lose lose in my mind.   IF Jack would have asked Ennis (or even Randall) to come up to his folk's place and do something specific--like build up a corral system, or roundup or help with cattle work----Ennis would have, I don't think he would have questioned it, help a friend, esp. Jack would have been easy.   Jack knew his father would never allow anyone else to do much around the home ranch, that is why Jack couldn't stay there either---just passed through now and then.    And since there would ever be only ONE stud duck on that place, it was never going to be Jack till after his father died--and bringing anyone up there to supposedly build a cabin, was never anything but talk, they never could have survived there.     

Whether his Father knew about Jack's being with other men, I don't think it mattered, he looked at his son as a dreaming no account--and nothing would have ever changed that outlook.  Jack already knew he couldn't ever please him, no matter what.

I do not think Ennis got any of the ashes.  He would have had to be going through the house as a whole to get them, and he didn't.  Plus he couldn't have snuck them out after asking for them, and NOT getting them.     I didn't see that at all.   But everyone draws their own conclusions.

Offline tpe

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Re: The importance of Jack’s dad
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18, 2006, 06:58 PM »
From the original story, we do catch a glimpse of Jack's dad -- and the glimpse in uncompromisingly horrific.  I think this is why the element of sensitivity which Gyllenhaal injected into the Jack Twist character was very apt, as Jack would have attempted to be the exact opposite of his unloving, stern father (if you believe in certain aspects propounded in mainstream psychology).  The polar opposite would have been Jack's mother, and her portrayal in the movie is in keeping with Gyllenhaal's projected sensitivity.

The scene in the original story which I will forever associate with Jack's father is the horrific urination scene close to the end of the story.  Mercifully, the film did NOT choose to include this scene.  But this particular part of the story demonstrates the brutality of Jack's father -- certainly hinted at in Ang Lee's screen adaptation.

For those unfamiliar with the short story, I excerpt the passage from the online-version.  It is the monstrum horrendum of the section dealing with Ennis' visit to Jack's parents.

He stood up, said, you bet he'd like to see Jack's room, recalled one of Jack's stories about this old man. Jack was dick-clipped and the old man was not; it bothered the son who had discovered the anatomical disconformity during a hard scene. He had been about three or four, he said, always late getting to the toilet, struggling with buttons, the seat, the height of the thing and often as not left the surroundings sprinkled down. The old man blew up about it and this one time worked into a crazy rage. "Christ, he licked the stuffin out a me, knocked me down on the bathroom floor, whipped me with his belt. I thought he was killin me. Then he says, 'You want a know what it's like with piss all over the place? I'll learn you,' and he pulls it out and lets go all over me, soaked me, then he throws a towel at me and makes me mop up the floor, take my clothes off and warsh them in the bathtub, warsh out the towel, I'm bawlin and blubberin. But while he was hosin me down I seen he had some extra material that I was missin. I seen they'd cut me different like you'd crop a ear or scorch a brand. No way to get it right with him after that."


Horrible!
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2006, 07:03 PM by tpe »

Offline septuaginarian

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Re: The importance of Jack’s dad
« Reply #3 on: Feb 17, 2006, 11:24 PM »

He stood up, said, you bet he'd like to see Jack's room, recalled one of Jack's stories about this old man.

Why did Ennis remember Jack’s story now? He remembered Jack missed him enough to make him whip babies: awfully enough, Ennis’s treatment of Jack in retrospect might have made him feel as culpable as Jack’s father was.

But Mr. Twist cuts Jack again when he cuts short Ennis’s respectful request to carry out his friend's last wish.

Oimoi, peplegmai, kairian plegen eso.

Oimoi, mal authis, deuteron, peplegmenos.


            Aeschylus, Agamemnon*

__________________________________________________

*Agamemnonm, when his wife murders him in the bath, is heard offstage to cry “Oh my, I have been struck a mortal strike within” (line 1343). And a short time later, “Oh my, again, I am he who has been stricken twice! (line 1345)”

« Last Edit: Feb 18, 2006, 01:04 PM by septuaginarian »
septuaginarian

Offline ethan

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Re: The importance of Jack’s dad - possible spoilers
« Reply #4 on: Feb 22, 2006, 09:46 PM »
Here is a topic about Jack's dad. It may add something to the discussion.

http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=996.0
Remembering Pierre (chameau) 1960-2015, a "Capricorn bro and crazy Frog Uncle from the North Pole." You are missed