Topic: jack's stubbornness

[kcristob]

One of the things I really love in this movie are the rare times that Jack is stubborn and Ennis is flexible.  The two examples that come to mind are food things and they happen on the mountain.

The first is when Jack says "no more beans."  And suddenly Ennis - who I suspect is not exactly used to giving a rip what others want and has already SAID he doesn't like soup, is suddenly wanting soup -- for jack.

And the other is one of my very favorite moments in the movie for some reason.  It's when Ennis loses most of the food to the bear scare and responds to jack's concern about their food supply with "nah, I'd just rather eat beans."  There's those couple of beats, and then Jack's "well I won't."

And the next thing you know Ennis is killing a moose (?) for Jack.

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

just random thoughts...

[Toadily]

One of the things I really love in this movie are the rare times that Jack is stubborn and Ennis is flexible.  The two examples that come to mind are food things and they happen on the mountain.

The first is when Jack says "no more beans."  And suddenly Ennis - who I suspect is not exactly used to giving a rip what others want and has already SAID he doesn't like soup, is suddenly wanting soup -- for jack.

And the other is one of my very favorite moments in the movie for some reason.  It's when Ennis loses most of the food to the bear scare and responds to jack's concern about their food supply with "nah, I'd just rather eat beans."  There's those couple of beats, and then Jack's "well I won't."

And the next thing you know Ennis is killing a moose (?) for Jack.

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

just random thoughts...

Those are great observations.  Yes, I see that too.

[Toadily]

Another time is when they have to separate the sheep and Jack is just saying
"forget Aquirre" and being stubborn, but Ennis is pushing him saying what if we want to work here again...you know we gotta do this Jack...

[jimnick]

It is also Jack who insists on Ennis getting away for a few days on their first reunion.

Jim

[sweetlilg]

Jack and Ennis complete each other.. *sigh*

[tweric]

How true....

No wonder Jack fell for Ennis... (and vice versa)

[Liam56]

One of the things I really love in this movie are the rare times that Jack is stubborn and Ennis is flexible.  The two examples that come to mind are food things and they happen on the mountain.

The first is when Jack says "no more beans."  And suddenly Ennis - who I suspect is not exactly used to giving a rip what others want and has already SAID he doesn't like soup, is suddenly wanting soup -- for jack.

And the other is one of my very favorite moments in the movie for some reason.  It's when Ennis loses most of the food to the bear scare and responds to jack's concern about their food supply with "nah, I'd just rather eat beans."  There's those couple of beats, and then Jack's "well I won't."

And the next thing you know Ennis is killing a moose (?) for Jack.

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

just random thoughts...

Hey kcristob-----

Really nice observations that I hadn't thought about but they make sense.  Ennis seems much more complex than Jack.  Jack just seems to take things as they are, but then there are occasions, as you mentioned, where Ennis just accepts.  I guess that is why the relationship lasted almost 20 years.  Jack does have a hold on Ennis, but Ennis would never have gone out of his way to be with Jack if he didn't want to.  The last scene in the movie says it all where Ennis has his old bloody shirt wrapped over Jack's denim jacket--"like two skins, one inside the other."  It would never have lasted if it weren't mutual.

Thanks for the thoughts.

[Riobbm23]

One of the things I really love in this movie are the rare times that Jack is stubborn and Ennis is flexible.  The two examples that come to mind are food things and they happen on the mountain.

The first is when Jack says "no more beans."  And suddenly Ennis - who I suspect is not exactly used to giving a rip what others want and has already SAID he doesn't like soup, is suddenly wanting soup -- for jack.

And the other is one of my very favorite moments in the movie for some reason.  It's when Ennis loses most of the food to the bear scare and responds to jack's concern about their food supply with "nah, I'd just rather eat beans."  There's those couple of beats, and then Jack's "well I won't."

And the next thing you know Ennis is killing a moose (?) for Jack.

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

just random thoughts...

Woah, thank you so much for this thread!  All of this is very interesting and I didn't see it that way before (I was a little bit clueless) but now I have another point of view and of course falling in love with the film more...  Keep the good work!    :D

[Mars]

One of the things I really love in this movie are the rare times that Jack is stubborn and Ennis is flexible.  The two examples that come to mind are food things and they happen on the mountain.

The first is when Jack says "no more beans."  And suddenly Ennis - who I suspect is not exactly used to giving a rip what others want and has already SAID he doesn't like soup, is suddenly wanting soup -- for jack.

And the other is one of my very favorite moments in the movie for some reason.  It's when Ennis loses most of the food to the bear scare and responds to jack's concern about their food supply with "nah, I'd just rather eat beans."  There's those couple of beats, and then Jack's "well I won't."

And the next thing you know Ennis is killing a moose (?) for Jack.

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

just random thoughts...

I agree with your thoughts, kcristob.
Jack indeed has a leading role more than currently thought.
We have not to forget it was Jack to bring Ennis little by little to sex and love.
Jack is an active and brave character, in my opinion.

[frances]

These moments show me that Jack is able from early on to take Ennis outside of his normal behavior.  That Ennis wants to please jack - which like I said is not, I suspect, his usual m.o.

I think that's a thread through the movie.  Even though Jack doesn't ever get Ennis completely, he still has so much power over him.

On the one hand it's true (Just another example : "That's more words than you've spoke in the past two weeks"."Hell, that's the most I've spoke in a year") but on the other hand, Jack can't exercise his power on the most important thing : the terms of their relationship. Ennis fixes them.

[wyomingplains]

Another thing, when Jack says that he is tired of sleeping with the sheep, Ennis says that "I don't mind doing it".  Everything for Jack...

[n061857]

I just posted this on another thread.  Think about the significance of Ennis shooting that Elk.  Ennis plays by the rules.  Ennis's shooting of that elk is the first time Ennis defies society, poaching law, for Jack.  He is demonstrating his love, thoughtfulness and concern and as you said his flexibility.