Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent Spoiler (Read 440328 times)

ethan · « **on:** Jan 18, 2006, 07:43 PM »

Just went to my 5th viewing today. Every time is a new discovery and thought process. One of them is the topic I am posting.

In the 2nd tent scene, why did Ennis enter the tent and apologize to Jack? How significant is his initiative?

Well..I have thought of the first question - still can't figure it out. Any thought on that?

For the second question, it is no doubt in my mind that Ennis was drawn to Jack and really took comfort in the relationship. The love making scene is just incredible. I could watch it over and over again.

Toadily · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 18, 2006, 07:51 PM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 18, 2006, 07:43 PM

Just went to my 5th viewing today. Every time is a new discovery and thought process. One of them is the topic I am posting.

In the 2nd tent scene, why did Ennis enter the tent and apologize to Jack? How significant is his initiative?

Well..I have thought of the first question - still can't figure it out. Any thought on that?

For the second question, it is no doubt in my mind that Ennis was drawn to Jack and really took comfort in the relationship. The love making scene is just incredible. I could watch it over and over again.

Did he apologize or just finally accept? I felt it was more of a letting down the guard.

ethan · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 18, 2006, 07:58 PM »

Quote from: Toadily on Jan 18, 2006, 07:51 PM

Did he apologize or just finally accept? I felt it was more of a letting down the guard.

I think Ennis said "I am sorry" barely audible.

The other question I have is the timing between the first tent and second tent scene. Could it be just a few days apart or the next day after the first tent scene?

dirtbiker · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 18, 2006, 07:59 PM »

Yes, that scene where he was somewhat hesitant by the fire and then taking glances to the tent where Jack was laying in, was so sweet. I believe that he realized that he couldn't deny his deep feelings for Jack anymore at that point, so he essentially, went it there, feeling somewhat vulnerable, taking his hat off and putting it by his chest as a sign of "submission" to the feelings that he had for Jack. *sniff*

ethan · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 18, 2006, 08:04 PM »

Quote from: dirtbiker on Jan 18, 2006, 07:59 PM

Yes, that scene where he was somewhat hesitant by the fire and then taking glances to the tent where Jack was laying in, was so sweet. I believe that he realized that he couldn't deny his deep feelings for Jack anymore at that point, so he essentially, went it there, feeling somewhat vulnerable, taking his hat off and putting it by his chest as a sign of "submission" to the feelings that he had for Jack. *sniff*

Thanks, dirtbiker. Submission is a good word. It is such a rarity for Ennis. *sniff* too. I think this is the only one time when Ennis was taking the *lead* in the relationship.

tweric · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 05:19 PM »

My take is that he finally gave in (to the "whatever " it was between them). Remember the "look" Ennis threw at Jack when Ennis left the main camp and Jack asked, apologetically almost, "See you for supper?" after their *first night*? It was a look of disgust. Ennis was still not accepting at the moment. (In the book, it's a bit different, but essentially turns out the same way)

Then Jack went up to the mountain. A better bet would be Ennis didn't and didn't want to return to the main camp that night, so Jack went up there the next day and basically saying "let's talk" -- in their cowboy/herder/ranchhand way -- prop up on one elbow and side, then wait. :p

Of course, this could all happen on the same day.

Now that they "talked" and understood each other, so Ennis returned to the main camp. Jack couldn't just *pull* Ennis to the tent after the supper, so he went in first and whatever. Jack switched the role and was the camp tender anyway. Ennis could just head back to the sheep, but after some hesitation, he chose to continue the "courting". Of course he was really new at this, hence the "apologetic" and "vulnerable" look and behavior. (I'd say Ennis's being "apologetic" because the "mean" look he threw at Jack that morning)

BTW, I thought I heard (almost non-audible) Jack saying "shhh.. It's ok, it's all right" during the 2nd tent scene...

Toadily · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 05:29 PM »

Jack says "its ok", it's in the script too.

Yes I catch that look Ennis throws for sure, it's obvious he is a little miffed right then.
I mean wouldn't you be? Youre a hung over, macho cowboy and with an "oh my gosh what have I done" headache and what you have done is one thing shunned by your society?
But then knowing Jack is in the tent later he can't resist.....

sharve · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 05:58 PM »

Quote from: dirtbiker on Jan 18, 2006, 07:59 PM

Yes, that scene where he was somewhat hesitant by the fire and then taking glances to the tent where Jack was laying in, was so sweet. I believe that he realized that he couldn't deny his deep feelings for Jack anymore at that point, so he essentially, went it there, feeling somewhat vulnerable, taking his hat off and putting it by his chest as a sign of "submission" to the feelings that he had for Jack. *sniff*

I quite agree with you. I also think that when he is by the fire, hesitating, he is evaluating the consequences of his going into the tent (should I, should I not). If he goes, he is admitting to himself his homosexuality, and he knows darn well his life will never be the same after that. And he goes for it against all his fears.

Toadily · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 06:04 PM »

This wasn't in the short story but it's a needed scene to tell the story, cause the first time was so quick but they needed to show the closeness.

ethan · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 06:16 PM »

Great posts so far and I enjoy reading each one of them. Based on what I read here, could the following timeline be correct?

After the first tent scene -

The next day - Ennis went up to the sheep in the morning, later Jack went up as well.

The evening on the same day - the second tent scene took place

Is this the consensus?

Toadily · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 06:18 PM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 19, 2006, 06:16 PM

Great posts so far and I enjoy reading each one of them. Based on what I read here, could the following timeline be correct?

After the first tent scene -

The next day - Ennis went up to the sheep in the morning, later Jack went up as well.

The evening on the same day - the second tent scene took place

Is this the consensus?

I believe so too. I mean Jack going up there has to be cause we see the sheep right? Although I am sure Ang mostly did that shot for the look of it more than the story telling of Jack going up there.

tpe · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 06:53 PM »

Quote from: sharve on Jan 19, 2006, 05:58 PM

Quote from: dirtbiker on Jan 18, 2006, 07:59 PM
Yes, that scene where he was somewhat hesitant by the fire and then taking glances to the tent where Jack was laying in, was so sweet. I believe that he realized that he couldn't deny his deep feelings for Jack anymore at that point, so he essentially, went it there, feeling somewhat vulnerable, taking his hat off and putting it by his chest as a sign of "submission" to the feelings that he had for Jack. *sniff*

I quite agree with you. I also think that when he is by the fire, hesitating, he is evaluating the consequences of his going into the tent (should I, should I not). If he goes, he is admitting to himself his homosexuality, and he knows darn well his life will never be the same after that. And he goes for it against all his fears.

I second this interpretation. The screenplay does say that Ennis hesitates before he finally lets go and enters the tent.

Once they are together inside, recall that Jack assures him by saying 'It's alright...it's alright...'

ethan · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 07:05 PM »

Quote from: sharve on Jan 19, 2006, 05:58 PM

If he goes, he is admitting to himself his homosexuality, and he knows darn well his life will never be the same after that. And he goes for it against all his fears.

Probably off topic

I am not sure if Ennis *admits* his homosexuality or even knows that his life will change forever during that hesitation. Keep in mind, Ennis was not even 20. I feel Ennis is just having a good time during the summer with Jack and thinks he could go on with his life. His struggle really starts after he parted with Jack. From Ennis's reaction four years later when he met Jack, he really missed him.

tpe · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 07:13 PM »

Quote from: ethan on Jan 19, 2006, 07:05 PM

Quote from: sharve on Jan 19, 2006, 05:58 PM
If he goes, he is admitting to himself his homosexuality, and he knows darn well his life will never be the same after that. And he goes for it against all his fears.

Probably off topic

I am not sure if Ennis *admits* his homosexuality or even knows that his life will change forever during that hesitation. Keep in mind, Ennis was not even 20. I feel Ennis is just having a good time during the summer with Jack and thinks he could go on with his life. His struggle really starts after he parted with Jack. From Ennis's reaction four years later when he met Jack, he really missed him.

ethan, yes, I agree with your qualification. The scene is more probably an admission of his love for Jack, rather than an admission of his homosexuality.

stickler · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 01:46 PM »

I love this thread ... I had noticed the hesitation when Ennis approach the tent but hadnt given it much thought ... your interpretations make that scene even more beautiful.

Cheers

kcristob · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 02:15 PM »

I have struggled in my three viewings to hear what is said in the second tent scene. Each time I hear "I'm sorry" but decided that I was really hearing "It's alright." And each time I thought it was jack saying "I'm sorry" (which actually appeals to me. I'm sorry for making you feel something that's uncomfortable.) OH, for a DVD viewing - where we can actually watch a scene until we get it right AND watch our favs over and over.

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 09:47 PM »

Walking to the tent, Ennis removes and holds his hat at his waist. This is reminiscent of earlier westerns or traditions where gentlemen remove their hat before speaking to a ..date(?). I thought it was a nice, tender touch. This scene solidifies their spiritual connection..after the first tent scene does their physical connection. It is really difficult to watch this movie with our modern vocabulary(gay, homosexual, etc.) These boys did not know what to do being lost outside of the main stream. Jack's whispers of "its all right" are beautiful. Also, the scene in the movie's trailer with Jack shirtless standing on the bridge had to be shot for the day after the 2nd tent scene when...its the same location from the perspective of the tent...After 6 viewings, it is clear how great Jake is in the film, esp. when you are not supposed to be watching him.

bobcarn · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 20, 2006, 11:56 PM »

My take on it is this. With the first tent scene, Jack knew what he wanted. He was going for it. Ennis wasn't expecting anything, was surprised, and held back. They grapple and Ennis gives in to his physical desires.

After their little conversation though, Ennis is in a much more difficult position. He gave in to his physical desires the night before, but now he's giving in to his emotional desires. Opening yourself to someone emotionally for the first time ever in your life is VERY scary.

In between, I wondered too why Jack was up on that mountain. I realized that ultimately, it doesn't matter why. He just was.

Walford · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 03:32 AM »

I found something else touching about the hat in the second tent scene. Of course, Jack went in fully expecting Ennis to follow. Ennis knew he would, too, as much he hated the idea.

As Ennis knelt at the tent flap, he held the hat in front of him like a shiled, a barrier between him and Jack, maybe almost hoping that it would keep them apart.

And Jack simply took the hat from Ennis's hands and laid it aside, as though he were allowing Ennis to vulnerable. Small detail, but is spoke so much to the story. Jack didn't grab Ennis and pull him down, he merely took away his shield.

bnjmn3 · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 07:49 AM »

Ennis (Proulx) uses the hat as a barrier throughout...watch how the boys handle the hats during their conversations outside the tent, too.

jimnick · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 12:30 PM »

I didn't hear Ennis apologize to Jack.

The night of the first tent scene, Ennis gets drunk and it gets too late to ride up to the sheep in the dark. In the second scene (the next night) Ennis is not drunk, it is not too late, or at least not too dark. So Our Boy has already made the decision to stay in camp with Jack before he even approaches the tent with luscious Jack waiting bare chested inside.

He knew what he was doing and there was no shame because there was no one there to shame him.

And, everybody needs love.

Jim

coguaro · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 01:14 PM »

In Italian version Ennis excuse is well clear. The day after first sex encounter Ennis tell Jack that he isn't an homosexual and that this "story will finish before it start"; the same night Ennis present to Jack tent to excuse.
It seems to me.. "excuse me because I'm stupid, I know you like me, I know I'm loving with you.. simply I had some fears in my soul... please pardon me..."

I think that after all Ennis is the more sweet and gentle man I ever knew

coguaro

alicat · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 01:23 PM »

Yes, I heard Ennis apologise to Jack when he entered the tent (barely audible though it was). He said 'I'm sorry..i'm sorry' and then Jack responds 'It's alright..it's alright' or similar. My guess is Ennis is apologising for ignoring Jack and riding off after their first night together.

On a slightly different note, I love the look Jack has in his eyes when he and Jack are about to kiss in that scene above. He looks deep into his eyes..I would love to have seen that scene from Ennis's perspective to see how he was looking at Jack.

alicat · « **Reply #23 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 01:25 PM »

>>>I love the look Jack has in his eyes when he and Jack are about to kiss in that scene above.

Sorry - I meant I love the look Jack has when he and ENNIS are about to kiss.

This film sure got me good ;-)

rabjr1 · « **Reply #24 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 05:41 PM »

this scene is not in th eoriginal story in the screen play all Jack says to Ennis is "It's all right....It's all right."

NO sorry from Ennis.

Again we make of it what is in our own minds (hearts) What would we do?

kcristob · « **Reply #25 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:48 PM »

well, I'm going again tomorrow and paying close attention to this an other scenes (I almost need note paper - but would get too emersed in the story to take notes).

I will become UNHINGED if what happened to me last time happens again.

In the second tent scene - the lovely, loving romantic one - a woman IN FRONT OF ME GETS UP AND REPEATS "I'm not going to stay for this" several times.

I MISSED THE SCENE because of her.

Ok, I'm calming down. Better to go to an afternoon viewing where there will be less people and more likely people who know what they're in for.

I just wonder if my coworkers are going to start thinking I'm getting cancer treatments or something.

Another "afternoon appointment" tomorrow.

jimnick · « **Reply #26 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 08:36 PM »

Quote from: alicat on Jan 23, 2006, 01:25 PM

>>>I love the look Jack has in his eyes when he and Jack are about to kiss in that scene above.

Sorry - I meant I love the look Jack has when he and ENNIS are about to kiss.

This film sure got me good ;-)

I love the way they look at eachother and yes, they kiss sweetly don't they.

I swear, I'm crying right now just thinking about it... and that is a happy part!

I'll be the blubbering Last Mess if I don't stop this minute.

Jim

rabjr1 · « **Reply #27 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 02:51 AM »

Just saw it again this evening I did not hear Ennis say "I'm sorry" in the 2nd tent scene perhaps I didn't hear it? I don't think I saw their lips move either speaking unheard words. I guess I'll have to see it again.

Ennis enters the tent with his hat in his hand - How many times in how many westerns is there a particular scene when the guy has his hat in hand - Isn't there an expression "with hat in hand"? - He comes to the tent with hat in hand and from what I could see Ennis is no longer the dominant person he is definately submissive and ( be still my beating heart) Hat in hand, submissive he gives into Jack who takes him in his hands and shows him the way of love - how ****ing corny but there it is.

I only hear "It's all right" during their breakdown scene where Ennis actually collapses.

The following scene is when Cassie walks into the diner with another man. Confronts Ennnis over the notes she left etc. My take on this is:
Ennis had a breakdown with Jack up the last camp. Ennis decides to break with Cassie in the only way he can. He cannot carry on this sham relationship which began AFTER the Thanksgiving scene with Alma and the kids. Cassie was the dominant one picking up Ennis however Ennis continues with their relationship. He needs a female "beard" in other words a woman on his arm just to confirm to the world that he is straight (not a word Ennis would use but to convey outwardly to the world that he is NOT QUEER) This confirms to me some sort of Ennis finally accepting his true sexuality and love for Jack. In breaking with Cassie.

Ennis eating pie and coffee alone is indicative of his finally accepting his lot.

I still think Ennis got choked up when John Twist told Ennis about Jack's plans of bringing someone else up to the Twist Ranch.

Heartwrenching the subtle expressions of Ennis and Jack's mother when Ennis silently asks for the shirts, her silently saying "It's all right"
maybe that's where Jack gets it, and Ennis"s silent thank you as he leaves their house

Sorry to mix so much in this spot.

rabjr1 · « **Reply #28 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 10:46 AM »

Looked it up on internet, knew there was some signifance to the hat. Going "hat in hand" is a form of humility. Ennis is definately being submissive to Jack. He knows he is going into the tent. Can you just imagint Ennis saying to Jack "Be gentle"?

j · « **Reply #29 on:** Jan 24, 2006, 11:01 AM »

In the good old days, not that long ago , ALL MALES took their hat off as a sign of respect.NO MALE would EVER have a hat on at the table.
Too bad that this is not the case nowadays.
J

Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler* (Read 440328 times)

tweric

sharve

Author Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent Spoiler (Read 440328 times)