Author Topic: jack twist broke my heart (Read 18564 times)

kyomine · « **on:** Jan 19, 2006, 06:26 AM »

hi! i ve seen the movie twice, once in october, at a gay and lesbians festival then yesterday, i'm french so excuse my poor english.

The first time i saw it, i didn't cry, i was surely too excited and also had seen the movie with Ennis point of view and i was very touched and understanding by this character.

Yesterday i saw it being more focused on Jack and it broke my heart a thousand times more than the first time i saw it, at the end i actually cried like a baby. It broke my heart cause if before i understood Ennis 's reason, i saw this time all the damage Ennis did , especially to Jack. I was floored to see that man at the begining, being so hopeful, happy to start his own life, to try to get his dream becoming as more as the movie goes more and more unhappy, lonely,bitter and still trying to hold up to some hope that one day he will live with Ennis until his soul died when he really understood after the fight scene and the flashback that he will never have what he wanted.

The physical death was just logical after that, may be it was an accident may be he had been killed, i don't think it's important, for me jack were already dead and his soul died with the flashback and stayed there.

As for Ennis, believing immediately he had been killed proved again he is really trapped still, can't possibly imagine it could just have been an accident. It's like when he saw the sheep dead after the night he passed with jack. The sheep probably reminded him that old killed cowboy and also like a reminder of " this is wrong". Ennis is haunted but he doesn't see how much he can hurt people that so sad, cause Jack never done no wrong.

I felt for him when Ennis said, " guys like you" i understand Ennis is confused and crash but at the same time, he is like all it's because of you jack i m like this, it's scary cause sometimes i think if ennis met a guy who tell him" i m going to heal you from that devil inside you" he could go for it!

i love Ennis and the second time what really makes me happy more than the first, was he does accept to go at his daughter's wedding! if he had say no, i would have been mad, for the sake of what jack teached him, he had to accept or even jack's passage in his life would have been worthless.

I think jack find happiness in death ,wierdly,for me , he went back to brokeback mountain where we saw the flashback waiting for Ennis who has now to live and learn all what jack meant to him and all.

Even, if Jack was cheating on his wife, he also was respectful with his wife and a sweet affection toward her. Ennis loved Alma too but as always Ennis hurt so much people he loved and Alma had a really hard time too. If only Ennis could have seen all the hurt he put on everyone around him. i hope at the end, he will change that, and i was so glad he accepted to go to the wedding

well sorry for all that long post but i needed to say it.

thank you

monicita · « **Reply #1 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 07:14 AM »

Quote from: kyomine on Jan 19, 2006, 06:26 AM

It broke my heart cause if before i understood Ennis 's reason, i saw this time all the damage Ennis did , especially to Jack.

Yes, that is something I've felt as well: Ennis never learns to face his own longings until after Jack dies. But when he stands there and says "Jack, I swear" with tears in his eyes he seems to understand that it is love he has been feeling all the time. Heartbraking.
I saw Brokeback again last night (London, sold out theatre, people as quiet as mice) and Jack's heartbreak got to me more than it had before. he really needed to move on and try to find love with somebody else. Maybe it wouldn't have worked out, but he needed to try, not to let two lives be ruined forever. And maybe he was even thinking that he was ruining Ennis' life more than his own.
One strange thing: I never cry until after I've left the theatre. It seems to be too private a feeling and the movie hits me so hard when I'm seeing it, I can't even cry.

Sigh,

monicita

Sitaram · « **Reply #2 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 07:52 AM »

Nice thread. Interesting. I wonder if Ennis was "Jack's first." I have only seen the movie once, last week and I have not had time to read the story carefully.

The question hangs upon the scene where Pentecost is discussed, and Jack says, something like "and people like you and me will march off to hell." (I cant remember the exact words.) Ennis of course says something like "Well I dont know about you, but I have not had the opportunity to sin yet." Funny, how Ennis seems to equate sin with sex. Anyway, we can assume that Ennis means he has not had sex yet. But what about Jack? Suppose that Ennis IS Jack's first? Think of those situations in which a woman gives everything to her first man, and then waits expectantly for something in return, a phone call, another date, some sign that what she gave meant something to the other person.

Later, when Jack says, "That is just between you and me." I have heard women say that in my life, when conversation turns to the topic of their intimacy with someone.

Jack seems at times the more feminine person, and Ennis the more masculine.

It is curious that, when Jack's future wife first has relations, she is shown on top of Jack, in a very aggressive posture.

Now, Jack seems more masculine in the sense that he is driven by his appetites to seek a prostitute in Mexico, whereas Ennis seems more feminine in his fidelity to Jack, and his rage at the thought that Jack might have been with anyone else.

monicita · « **Reply #3 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:08 AM »

I would say the beauty of this movie (one of the many beauties!) that it shows a very differentiated view of what masculinity can be. Nobody is wholly masculine or feminine. And gay men don't have to be tops or bottoms (or they can play with different possibilities), just as nobody and nothing is totally good or bad, black or white etc.

monicita

kyomine · « **Reply #4 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:14 AM »

I don't think Ennis was Jack 's first, it's a feeling i got, Jack seemed so sure of himself and all, i say it wasn't his first but it was indeed the first and last time he fell in love.

monicita · « **Reply #5 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:21 AM »

I don't think it was Jack's first time either. But are you sure he didn't fall in love with Randall, the guy he was going to bring up to Brokeback after the last scene with Ennis (Oh god, my heart always breaks when I think of that scene).

I don't say he doesn't love Ennis anymore. But he is willing to move on to something new. We don't see that something new, because it is not part of this story. His death is, though. This is an important issue to me, because there is somebody in my life I still love, even though I don't know if I will ever see him again, even though I've loved other people. He will always be the great love (the mad one, the out of bounds one) of my life. This does not mean I can't fall in love with other people.

monicita

kyomine · « **Reply #6 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:37 AM »

I don't think he was in love with that guy randall, but sure, he needed compagny and randall seemed to be lonely too with his wife who couldn't stop talking. at the end also, after the fight, i think Jack realised, he will never have the life he wants with Ennis so he tried to move on maybe but his father told too, that even with this new guy, it didn't made up.

Jack until the end loved Ennis and randall was for me a compagny he needed in his loneliness. It's heartbreaking to see jack so alive at the begining, knowing what he wants for his life, trying to get it and then, so lost , lonely and bitter and still, when he is fighting with Ennis, trying to make his point , all angry when he saw Ennis 's pain , hurt and love , he goes to him again, playing the strong one, telling Ennis it will be okay. Ennis once again was his priority even if he knows it's killing him inside.

So i m happy he found a little compagny even if it's not enough and not what he really wants, he told it to Ennis at that fight, he told how much it was hard for him, how he can't quit him. :'(

the flashback was a perfect add too to show what jack really wanted too.

tpe · « **Reply #7 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:38 AM »

Quote from: monicita on Jan 19, 2006, 07:14 AM

One strange thing: I never cry until after I've left the theatre. It seems to be too private a feeling and the movie hits me so hard when I'm seeing it, I can't even cry.

Sigh,

monicita

This is exactly how I reacted to this movie.

kyomine, you shared your thoughts beautifully. If there is something worth commending in Jake Gyllenhaal's performance, it is his transformation of Jack Twist's character thru his most sensitive portrayal. The Jack Twist in the story was certanly not as sensitive a character. I think Gyllenhaal's interpretation made absolute sense and greatly enriched the film as a whole.

This sensitive portrayal goes a long way in explaining why a lot of us feel that our hearts are broken.

kyomine · « **Reply #8 on:** Jan 19, 2006, 08:50 AM »

Oh yes, gyllenhaall was perfect in jack's role! For me jack twist is the real tragic character, because he fought all this time to have his happiness and died without having it, even with all his efforts to get it, his optimistic temper. The flower had perished.

Ennis is tragic too but he accepted a long time ago his condition, and it's also the one where he felt safe. He asked nothing really because he waits nothing either. his mantra " if you can't fix it you have to stand it" rules him but Jack is more " if you can't fix it, try another way to find how to fix it"

Jack is really tragic for me, because he was fighting a desperate situation but at the end he won with his death, really thinks if Ennis accepted to go to his daughter wedding, plus the " jack i swear" line is a sign jack's life changed Ennis even if he had to died to have the message sent.

Sitaram · « **Reply #9 on:** Jan 21, 2006, 12:45 PM »

It occurs to me that one element of tragedy is someone who cannot "pick up the pieces" and go on.

Oedipus certainly had no idea that he was murduring his own father and marrying his own mother. Once he discovered these things, it was not in his power to turn back the clock and fix things. But it WAS in his power not to put out his own eyes. He could have just picked up the pieces of his life and moved on.

Hemingway did not have to shoot himself. He could not change the fact of his old age, injuries, depression, and perhaps lack of creativity, but he could have picked up the pieces and gone on.

Even in "Damage". Jeremy Irons could have chosen to pick up the pieces and go on. He did not have to spend the rest of his life in some poor village, staring at a huge picture of his dead son and the fiancee and himself.

Maybe Jack was the real hero, because he finally found the courage to pick up the pieces and go on with his life. I dont know.

What is tragedy? Does tragedy lie in some outer karmic circumstances, or predestination, or will of the gods. Or does tragedy rather lie in our own free will choices, and trying to "fix" rather than simply to "stand it"?

A young doctor, doing his residentcy on a cancer ward, once said to me, "Its not the hand of cards that life deals you, but how you choose to play them."

francis.shim · « **Reply #10 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 04:27 AM »

Hi everybody,

I really love reading all the thoughts about Jack Twist so I hope I can add my own.

I wrote a few other postings about my feelings and thoughts about BBM and Ennis' role in this whole tragedy and, *YES* Jack Twist also broke my heart too; however to add...

Ennis and all the other characters were victims of forces that played their way through the entire movie. Sure, we can judge each character according to what the specific character did in the movie, but in the end the real question I kept asking myself was "Why?". So for me, it wasn't the characters that were to blame for anything... it was their THOUGHTS and FEELINGS that brought about the tragic consequences. I believe that when I traced why each of those thoughts and feelings came about, I could only come to the conclusion that all of the characters were victims of certain ideals and beliefs that have been established in our lives. Certainly Brokeback Mountain was a kind of commentary on the ideals and beliefs that our COWBOYS feel they have to follow.

Jack Twist was so endearing in that he was wiling to be open about his feelings. We can rest assured that when Jack tells us something that he also means it, but he too was trapped!!! When young Ennis and young Jack went their separate ways it was clear that neither of them wanted to really separate, but the current homophobic environment gave authority to Ennis' almost matter-of-factly decision to not see each other again... it was dangerous, it was career limiting ... it was just something that neither of them could handle at such an inexperienced time in their lives. Jack, although tortured by the thought and even spoke the words of wanting to stay together (by offering a lift to young Ennis), implicity understood the reasons. Ennis broke down and wailed against his decision, but he did what he thought was the right thing. Jack is smart, he knew this was why... otherwise, why could Jack not quit him. Ennis was his protector... at least, under the ideals and beliefs present at the time.

We could consider Jack being promiscous after Ennis as being innate in Jack, but I believe the movie/story really showed these scenes only to support the idea that Jack was trying to recapture what he misses so much from Ennis: the feeling of love. When he so poignantly shouted "I wish I could quit you!" when he faces Ennis for the last time later in their lives, he could only mean that he could not... even with all the other men that he slept with... I doubt he could move on with Randall. Consider that the story has us hear his plaintive wish: "I wish I could quit you!" only to be answered by the homophobic ideals and beliefs already pervasive throughout. He was murdered by agents of those ideals.

Jack was a victim... and so was Ennis.

Each of them were only trying to do what they believed was the right thing. How can I possibly blame them?

... and there lies the tragedy... and at this point, this is when I want to just fall on my knees and cry for them.

Frank

kyomine · « **Reply #11 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 09:06 AM »

jack twist really broke my heart also because his life was so miserable, of course only in surface, he had money, seemed to have a good life, a wife , a son, may be it's also the way Ennis saw it and did not understand how bad it was for Jack.

Because Ennis was a mess but he had a life , he had a loving wife alma ( until she couldn't stand it to see his husband lying to her and this jack twist thing , she ressentfull so much because i thought she loved him so much too ) he had two nice daughters who never stopped to love him, he had no money but did work in some job he liked most of the time. Ennis may be thought Jack was even more lucky, a rich wife and a son.

But the reality was jack's wife was cold, never took his defense, let a father rule the place, then being obsses with money. His son when you see that scene with the turkey how he answered to his mother and obviously his dad he just like his grand pa said a looser at his eye.

He has no consideration as a seller, the scene with the two guys mocked him and even his wife didn't say a word about it. He obviously didn't do the job he liked, seller was not his thing, he was a nothing for the people he lived with. His loneliness wasn't chosen but people put the loneliness in him. He had no life, so significance in the world he was living in.

Instead when he was with Ennis he was somebody , he was living, existing. Don't think Ennis really got it about jack 's real life. Jack complained about it but it seemed Ennis never really got it how bad it was for him to be alive but nothing to everybody.

Ennis didn't see his luck, because he was always somebody for someone, not only jack, his life was miserable but he had been considered by other people.

Jack just wanted to live with somebody who loved him and aknowledge he is existing. Even when his baby is born, he is like a stranger in that whole thing.

Ennis rejected love from alma, his daughters, even the waitress girl but he had love and then eventually at the end stop to reject it. But Jack never got love , only ennis love and surely his mother but his mother was trapped with a tyranic husband she is afraid of.

*Froggy* · « **Reply #12 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 09:13 AM »

Quote from: kyomine on Jan 22, 2006, 09:06 AM

jack twist really broke my heart also because his life was so miserable, of course only in surface, he had money, seemed to have a good life, a wife , a son, may be it's also the way Ennis saw it and did not understand how bad it was for Jack.

[...]

Ennis didn't see his luck, because he was always somebody for someone, not only jack, his life was miserable but he had been considered by other people.

Jack just wanted to live with somebody who loved him and aknowledge he is existing. Even when his baby is born, he is like a stranger in that whole thing.

Ennis rejected love from alma, his daughters, even the waitress girl but he had love and then eventually at the end stop to reject it. But Jack never got love , only ennis love and surely his mother but his mother was trapped with a tyranic husband she is afraid of.

Great post...I said in a previous post that when I cried, I cried for Jack, with Jack or because of what was happening to Jack...He did not break my heart...my heart broke for him!

kyomine · « **Reply #13 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 09:14 AM »

OH yes, true better way to tell it! my heart broke for him too .

*Froggy* · « **Reply #14 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 09:24 AM »

Quote from: kyomine on Jan 22, 2006, 09:14 AM

OH yes, true better way to tell it! my heart broke for him too .

.............. :'(

brokenheart5813 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 04:55 PM »

Hello,

I have spent the last week analyzing this movie (that has broken my heart) and thought that I had every angle covered, but did not realize until reading your post that Jack's hopes and dreams did die on that mountain the last time he and Ennis saw each other. I also believe that Jack was not cheating with the neighbor's wife down in Texas, but with the neighbor, a fact that he could not stand for Ennis to know. Both of these men broke my heart--and I don't think anything has affected me in such a way. This is indeed a beautiful movie.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #16 on:** Jan 22, 2006, 10:35 PM »

I'm so glad there are viewers that understood what Jack was all about. I read numerous critical remarks regarding Jack's character and they all seemed short-sighted. I too believe that Ennis was not Jack's first encounter with a man. What was obvious is that Ennis was Jack's first and ONLY true love. Jack may have been ready to try a life with Randall, but I believe had he not died, Randall would have never secured his own place in Jack's heart. "I wish I knew how to quit you" said it all. Jack had no idea how he was going to ever let go of Ennis. The flashback scene really shows one of the most tender moments the two shared. It's particularly heartbreaking to see Jack's face turn from love and hope to love and pain as Ennis drives away. I still get emotional at the thought of this scene.

monicita · « **Reply #17 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:43 AM »

I'm still thinking about the "Ennis was Jack's only love, ever, there could never have been anybody else" angle. In know there are people out there who need to believe that, maybe it is something that has to do with one's philosophy of life, one's outlook. I would rather say, it is what the movie needed to happen at that point: Jack needed to die, before he could go one step further in his life, before he could try something new, because otherwise there wouldn't have been closure for the movie. And it works for the movie, it is part of its greatness. Real life, however, mostly doesn't work out that way (and a good thing it doesn't).

Just imagine: How bitter it would be, if nothing of love, of companionship had never come Jack's way again, after he realised he would never realise his dream with Ennis. Maybe he would never have been able to let him go completely, but that doesn't mean he would never have found anything else. It would be interesting to think about and analyse why people seem to need the myth of the one great love, that lasts for ever. In a way, I also believe that, love is forever, but most relationships are not. So why not accept, that though you still love somebody, you will have to move on, hopefully taking something with you from that great love that will make you better able to love others in the future...

monicita

kcristob · « **Reply #18 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 12:44 PM »

previous quote:

" I also believe that Jack was not cheating with the neighbor's wife down in Texas, but with the neighbor, a fact that he could not stand for Ennis to know."

YES!

I think that too. I think he was cheating with the rancher neighbor at that point. I just don't see Jack at this point in his life finding another woman. That wasn't what he wanted. But he was still willing to drop this man for Ennis. Rancher was always second choice - even at the end.

tpe · « **Reply #19 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 01:25 PM »

Quote from: kcristob on Jan 23, 2006, 12:44 PM

previous quote:

" I also believe that Jack was not cheating with the neighbor's wife down in Texas, but with the neighbor, a fact that he could not stand for Ennis to know."

YES!

I think that too. I think he was cheating with the rancher neighbor at that point. I just don't see Jack at this point in his life finding another woman. That wasn't what he wanted. But he was still willing to drop this man for Ennis. Rancher was always second choice - even at the end.

I agree. Jack's father pretty much gives away the lie when he taunts Ennis during the latter's visit.

Angelove · « **Reply #20 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 06:56 PM »

Hello Monicita,

I also felt that Jack had to die for Ennis to finally realize how special, and fragile their relationship truly is. I've been struggling with the concept or the myth of the one great love that you wish with all your might that it will last forever. Whether it will ever be possible to rid yourself of it once afflicted by it, whether Jack would be satisfied if he found somebody who could give him what Ennis couldn't. The problem I find is that the movie answers this question for us. Jack did try to find somebody to fill that emptiness in his life, but in the end, it was not Ennis and Jack remained unsatisfied. So what does that say to an audience? That if you find a love that never dies and it does not work out like in Ennis's and Jack's case, you will ride it out for the rest of your life and be miserable in the process until the day you graced by Death's kind hand?

That's why I would like to thank Monicita for your insight and perhaps the resolution to the myth above. Yes, love is forever, we cannot escape from it, we cannot deny it and we cannot change the way we feel about that special somebody we love. It's the love that never dies. That's the truth. However, the myth is what has been confusing me. Just because it is a love that never dies, it does not mean it is meant to last forever as much as we wish it to. That's why I almost cried when I thought about your words, Love is forever, but most relationships are not. That is so tragically true, especially in Ennis's and Jack's case. And I still don't want to believe it as heartbreaking as that statement is; I still want to hope for the best and have faith that things might change for the better. This is something I don't want to help; I'm a dreamer.

Quote

So why not accept, that though you still love somebody, you will have to move on, hopefully taking something with you from that great love that will make you better able to love others in the future...

I don't know about the rest of us, but it takes a bloody strong person to walk away from that Love that Never Dies and for some, it takes a long time to recover from it so that you can love again. I guess I finally found the other piece of the missing puzzle. In one of my posts, I talked about the tragic flaw of Ennis's character, that he was not strong enough to pursue what he wanted and what he needed to be happy. Now, I found the tragic flaw in Jack's character that made this circle and story complete and heartbreaking; Jack was not strong enough to leave the Love that Never Dies and move on, or rather, quit Ennis for good. As much as being a silent cowboy defines Ennis, being the hopeful dreamer defines Jack.

In that sense, their fates are sealed; both can't stop being the way they are and ultimately, that brought about the tragedy at the end.

But then again, Jack didn't stay with Ennis as long as he did just because he was a dreamer. He did love Ennis. And nothing could substitute Ennis in his life, not even the foreman. That's something he wants, and that's the only thing that can make him truly happy. I'm a firm believer that we all should pursue what makes us happy. Jack has been pursuing what he believed is his happiness, being with Ennis. Jack was not pursuing a love that lasts forever, a myth, a cowboy, or somebody to fulfill his need for romance, love or intimacy. All he wanted was Ennis. And being with him, as much pain as it brought him, made him happy. He would have held on another twenty more years, or the rest of his life if he didn't die.

What do you think about this?

Ryan

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #21 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 07:50 PM »

Quote from: Angelove on Jan 23, 2006, 06:56 PM

But then again, Jack didn't stay with Ennis as long as he did just because he was a dreamer. He did love Ennis. And nothing could substitute Ennis in his life, not even the foreman. That's something he wants, and that's the only thing that can make him truly happy. I'm a firm believer that we all should pursue what makes us happy. Jack has been pursuing what he believed is his happiness, being with Ennis. Jack was not pursuing a love that lasts forever, a myth, a cowboy, or somebody to fulfill his need for romance, love or intimacy. All he wanted was Ennis. And being with him, as much pain as it brought him, made him happy. He would have held on another twenty more years, or the rest of his life if he didn't die.

What do you think about this?

Ryan

Ryan,

I agree with you on this subject. The tragic outcome of this story makes me wonder how long we should wait for someone we truly love. If Jack had been able to rationally evaluate his future with Ennis he might have concluded during their first reunion that this relationship would not progress to something he hoped for. Even accepting that conclusion, Jack would have walked away in undeniable pain. Knowing this was the best option would have given him some extra strength to deal with such an emotional loss. Unfortunately, for a lot of us, true love and logic seldom work as a team.

francis.shim · « **Reply #22 on:** Jan 23, 2006, 10:30 PM »

Hello again,

I have seen the movie only once and I just had a chance to read the text of Annie Proulx's original Brokeback Mountain short story.... oh boy, do I have to say that my heart splintered again for both Jack and Ennis... but this time round the short story seemed to make me mourn Jack more. Still trying to figure that out a bit. There are quite a few differences between the short story and the movie although the overall plot-line is similar enough to not really change the Brokeback Mountain theme.

After all my lamenting over Jack and Ennis, then reading the short story text, then reading a short essay about what was happening to Western America during the '60s, '70s and '80s... my thinking started changing. I certainly still feel for Jack and Ennis, but the difference is Jack and Ennis were not the only people that my heart is breaking over.

Can you imagine living the hard life that the people in Brokeback Mountain had to live? Geesh! I suddenly realized that we have it damn *sissy*-easy (please don't take too much offense to sissy, I'm just using slang) compared to what Jack and Ennis had to live with and go through. Ranchers, herders and so on during that time were having it "real bad" economically... that even the movie showed business folding up, here, there and everywhere. Jack and Ennis had to scramble *IN DESPERATION* to find any f**ing work they could get. They were in survival mode due to those economic hardships... not only did hard times produced hard work, but it also denied Jack and Ennis from "good schooling". Education and open-mindedness were in short supply during their time. Now I a'int saying that there were no smart ass people then, but hell or tarnation would have a hard time competin' with conditions like this.

So... we had these two young inexperienced desperate men up in Brokeback Mountain who then shared something that was like the angel-song to those damned desperate times... and Jack and Ennis were denied this?

!!!! Damn, something is not right! Could Ennis and Jack just get together and run away to find work as ranch-hands or work under Jack's homophobic father? How long would other guys give them until they find one of them alone and then bash them up with a tire iron? "I've seen it, Jack...", Ennis would say to Jack... "we'd end up dead.".

Ennis and Jack were able to ride into a kind of uneasy "dance" with the rest of the world at the time, but the constant swapping of partners like drunken calls in a square dancing was just too confusing for all of them... and the dances had to keep changing. Both Jack and Ennis knew what kind of dance they wanted... not the *desperate* carousel, but the slow and sleepy one, up on Brokeback Mountain when Ennis came up and held Jack from behind and just held him... it was like a sanctuary from the lightning storms so frequent in dem times. It wasn't even so much the sex, it was the peace that the two of them shared in each others embrace that drove Jack to try and duplicate with others...... it was that peace that Ennis so wanted to share, but it hurt so much and he couldn't fix it and so he had to stand it.

... and poor Jack, he knew Ennis was right, but he knew Ennis was wrong... in being right... Jack wished he did not have to quit being with Ennis... but he *HAD* to wish that he quit... and you know that Ennis did keep tellin' 'im dat he'd end of dead... not as a threat... but like a lover's request to use a condom... it sure can spoil the mood, but we know it is right.... well, in a way.

Hard times, no schoolin' and damn even harder choices... it was no-one's fault that what happened to Jack happened... it was everybody's fault. Yeah, those guys with that goddamn tire iron were just those soldiers carrying out the instructions of society. Damn, this ain't right... but society let the deed go by... as if it were an accident of God... no, it was Jack's fault... he never was schooled enough to fix his truck right.

... is there some redemption here.... you betcha!

We are Jacks' and Ennis' future. It just chokes me up just how much love, thought and consideration there can be... like on this board...

... so yeah, Jack Twist broke my heart... so what are we gonna do? Are we gonna end up with only "Brokeback Mountain" or are we gonna swear something like Ennis did at the end?

Hope you can put up with my rambling... it still is a very touchy subject with me, somehow.

What do you think?

Frank