Topic: spilled beans scene - possible spoilers

[kcristob]

I'd like to know what others think about the scene where Ennis drops the girls off to Alma at the store.  I can't remember the sequence of events completely, but was he getting together with Jack? or was he really working?

And if he was really working, what was the purpose of the scene? 

thoughts?  ideas?

[ethan]

I'd like to know what others think about the scene where Ennis drops the girls off to Alma at the store.  I can't remember the sequence of events completely, but was he getting together with Jack? or was he really working?

And if he was really working, what was the purpose of the scene? 

thoughts?  ideas?

Hello, kristob - very interesting topic! My initial answer to the question - I don't think Ennis dropped off the kind because he was getting together with Jack. As for the purpose of the scene, I will need to think about it and post my thought later. 

[kcristob]

What I'm trying to remember is whether that scene is immediately preceeded by Alma hiding the post card from jack???  If it is, maybe jack showed up unexpectedly.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.  I just have mulled over this scene, and can't figure out what it's about.  Perhaps it's simply revealing the dynamics between alma and ennis as well as showing how monroe idolizes alma - she can do no wrong.

??

[tpe]

kristob, I agree with ethan because this scene occurs before their meeting after 4 years of not seeing each other.

It is a pretty good question: what is the point of this entire scene? 

In my opinion, the crucial part of the scene is when Ennis and Alma exchange words about whose job is more 'important'.  It highlights Ennis' vulnerability as an effective bread winner for his family.  His job is shown to be not regular: full of sudden summons and unpredicatable schedule changes.  Observe that Alma gives in at the end of THIS scene, in contrast to AFTER the first fishing trip, when she REFUSES to give up her extra shift so that she can serve dinner to Ennis and the girls.  These two opposing scenes show how jack's re-appearance in Ennis' life has started to affect Ennis' marriage in a negative way, as mentioned in the original short story.

Lastly, the scene is a convenient way of introducing Alma's future (2nd) husband: Munrow, who is the store owner.  His partiality and kindness to Alma hints at his romantic attachment to Ennis' wife at that point.

My thoughts...

[kcristob]

yes, good observations.  And you're right - the contrast in alma giving in PRE jack and not giving in POST jack (at least pre and post for alma).

thank you

[tpe]

kcristob, you're welcome.

I am sure there are a lot of interesting points and observation that we can get from this scene (absent from the original story, if I remember correctly).

The screenwriters are pretty good writers, and the way they introduced new scenes such as this (grafted from hints always originating from Proulx's original story) points to a lot of multi-level references and relationships to/with the other scenes.

[Toadily]

kristob, I agree with ethan because this scene occurs before their meeting after 4 years of not seeing each other.

It is a pretty good question: what is the point of this entire scene? 

In my opinion, the crucial part of the scene is when Ennis and Alma exchange words about whose job is more 'important'.  It highlights Ennis' vulnerability as an effective bread winner for his family.  His job is shown to be not regular: full of sudden summons and unpredicatable schedule changes.  Observe that Alma gives in at the end of THIS scene, in contrast to AFTER the first fishing trip, when she REFUSES to give up her extra shift so that she can serve dinner to Ennis and the girls.  These two opposing scenes show how jack's re-appearance in Ennis' life has started to affect Ennis' marriage in a negative way, as mentioned in the original short story.

Lastly, the scene is a convenient way of introducing Alma's future (2nd) husband: Munrow, who is the store owner.  His partiality and kindness to Alma hints at his romantic attachment to Ennis' wife at that point.

My thoughts...

Right I think introducing Monroe being considerate to Alma in contrast to Ennis is key here.

You know one plot hole is did Ennis *consider* trying to see if JAck was back on Brokeback the following summer or did he give that up?  I mean not to actually work for Aquirre but maybe I dunno...sneak up  there one day to see who was tending the sheep?  I would think it would cross his mind.

[tpe]

You know one plot hole is did Ennis *consider* trying to see if JAck was back on Brokeback the following summer or did he give that up?  I mean not to actually work for Aquirre but maybe I dunno...sneak up  there one day to see who was tending the sheep?  I would think it would cross his mind.

Toadily, interesting that both of us were thinking about the same thing...

I think there was a weak reference to Ennis thinking about Brokeback a year after being with Jack.  When Ennis is shown laying asphalt on a road the next summer after Brokeback, you see him looking wistfully out and beyond (almost absent-mindedly, as if he was present somewhere else) right before this scene ends.  This is not long before they show Jack going back and being refused a job by Agguire.

I think it was in keeping with Ennis' character that he did not attempt to go back to Brokeback.  Jack was always the instigator.  Notice that it is Jack who guides him and leads him on in the first and second tent/love scenes (especially the second one.)  Because of Ennis' repression, he had to be guided to where he wanted to go, as far as love was concerned.  This matches Ennis' comment when both of them were in bed at the Motel Siesta.  Let me parapharase as it was in the movie:

Ennis: I almost gave up on seeing you again...

Jack: Nahhhh.....

Ennis: Thought you were sore from that punch...

He was actually waiting for Jack all these years!!!!

Finally, we should not forget the simplest explanation.  Ennis was already married one year after being with Jack on Brokeback.  Therefore, he could not afford to be away from his wife for months on end, especially because she was pregnant that summer.


 

[tweric]

My thought to that spilled beans scene:

Together with all the elements and layers that tpe mentioned, I personally also think that,  it shows Ennis is willing to put Jack to his first priority -- before job, the two girls and Alma.

This scene happens before Alma picked up the first postcard. Ennis's reason -- I have to go because my job is very important. But when Jack showed up and they had to go, Ennis basically reacted like "Nah, my job isn't that important anymore" when Alma asked him what'd happen to his job. A big contrast before and after Jack showed up too.

My two cents..

[tpe]

This scene happens before Alma picked up the first postcard. Ennis's reason -- I have to go because my job is very important. But when Jack showed up and they had to go, Ennis basically reacted like "Nah, my job isn't that important anymore" when Alma asked him what'd happen to his job. A big contrast before and after Jack showed up too.

Excellent!!!!

THIS is certainly another aspect of the function of this scene.

[Toadily]

Excellent observation, yes.

[kcristob]

So, if ennis is willing to dump the job for jack at the beginning -- why does that change?? 

I'm so frustrated with that man!

[Toadily]

We all are dear...

i do think getting middle aged and having financial worries was part of it.  Remember he says he can't just quit like he "used to" when you are young you feel more invinsible.  Later you know there are limits, I mean he was doing a young mans job still right?  ranching etc.  I doubt he was first pick for the jobs anymore.

[ethan]

It is a pretty good question: what is the point of this entire scene? 

In my opinion, the crucial part of the scene is when Ennis and Alma exchange words about whose job is more 'important'.  It highlights Ennis' vulnerability as an effective bread winner for his family.  His job is shown to be not regular: full of sudden summons and unpredicatable schedule changes.  Observe that Alma gives in at the end of THIS scene, in contrast to AFTER the first fishing trip, when she REFUSES to give up her extra shift so that she can serve dinner to Ennis and the girls.  These two opposing scenes show how jack's re-appearance in Ennis' life has started to affect Ennis' marriage in a negative way, as mentioned in the original short story.

Lastly, the scene is a convenient way of introducing Alma's future (2nd) husband: Munrow, who is the store owner.  His partiality and kindness to Alma hints at his romantic attachment to Ennis' wife at that point.

My thoughts...

tpe, great explaination! It shows the contrast of Ennis's marriage with Alma before and after meeting Jack again. It is also convenient way of introducing Alma's future husband (as a side note - I didn't realize that he was Alma's second husband until my 3rd viewing. I was too focused on Jack and Ennis). 

This scene happens before Alma picked up the first postcard. Ennis's reason -- I have to go because my job is very important. But when Jack showed up and they had to go, Ennis basically reacted like "Nah, my job isn't that important anymore" when Alma asked him what'd happen to his job. A big contrast before and after Jack showed up too.

My two cents..

Yes. How love can really change someone.  :D

tweric, welcome.

[rane99]

hi all.. this scene is to intruce us to Alma's future husband.. you can see how much he likes her by the way he looks at her and the way he tells her cleaning up the mess for her is 'no problem' 

[ethan]

hi all.. this scene is to intruce us to Alma's future husband.. you can see how much he likes her by the way he looks at her and the way he tells her cleaning up the mess for her is 'no problem' 

Hello, rane99. Welcome and thanks for your first post. Yes, the scene is one convenient way of introducing Alma's future husband. I actually didn't know Alma's second husband is the guy from grocery store. It is just amazing how much details this movie contain from all different scenes.

Again, welcome and hope to see you around.  :D