Topic: Losing to an AWFUL Movie like CRASH...

[tireiron]

> I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity,
> intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how
> many times do they say "F***"?  BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.

Not for kids, but I was asking why not for 14 year olds, rather than show them
a censored version. 

[camom]

> Ah I would censor myself, I think we know where.

At what age would you not censor?

All this assumes that a parent could actually censor this movie, which i think
is doubtful.  This movie is so famous, and the DVD will be so prevalent, that
I don't think any child old enough to get on a computer or out of the
house unsupervized can be prevented from seeing all of it.

Call me old fashioned, but I dont think anybody under 16 or 17 should see BBM.  It is an adult film.  I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity, intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how many times do they say "F***"?  BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.

The language doesn't bother me, and I know it's something my kids have heard (from their dad, urk!).  They know not to use language like that.  The sex scenes, I don't think my older son is ready for that, and truthfully, I know him well enough to know that he wouldn't go looking for them elsewhere if I skip over them.  I've talked to both of them about the movie quite a bit.  My 9 year old wouldn't understand all the complexities, and actually I'd probably only let him watch up to the first tent scene.  I want him to understand that Ennis and Jack are nice guys, people he would like in real life--he already knows they're gay.  At his age, all he really needs to understand is that they're people like everyone else.  My older son is pretty astute.  We're also very close, and I think he deserves to know why this movie is so important to me.

camom

[camom]

> And when the DVD comes out, my 14 year old is going to see a somewhat censored version.

Having never had children I'm no expert on parenting, but why?  There's nothing in
Brokeback that would shock a 14 year old, is there?  Considering the garbage that most
14 year olds have been subjected to, I would think an uncensored Brokeback would
be just the thing to demonstrate to a 14 year old how senstitve subjects can be
handled well.

Ah, well, you say "most" 14 year olds.  Not all.  Some stuff you can't keep kids away from, but quite a lot you can.  I've tried hard to let my kids be kids.  If they're going to be shocked by something, I'd rather it was as significant as BBM.  Completely uncensored for a 14 year old is a little bit much, though (IMO).

camom

[BBBOY]

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think anybody under 16 or 17 should see BBM.  It is an adult film.  I can't imagine exposing, say, a 12yo to complex sexual content, nudity, intense relationship conflict on many levels, and, excuse me, but how many times do they say "F***"?  BBM is a masterpiece, but it is not for kids.

JerBear, complex sexual content, yes, intense relationship conflict on may levels, yes, nudity, what's wrong with a naked body, we all got one? Kids do not to need to be taught to associate nudity with sexuality. As for the F*** word, first time I heard it I was 7 years old and when some kid explained what it meant I thought it was the funniest thing I had ever heard. Yuck, who would want to do that?  Took me a while to catch on but I don't think it ever factored into in my own personal corruption. 

[ethan]

OK, now back to your regularly scheduled programming....



Keep on topic friends!

[bnjmn3]

The main issue is not about Crash great being a deserving film, but that members of the Academy avoided Brokeback on the basis of it's gay content. Period. Stop the Crash bashing..that is not the issue.

[camom]

Sorry, Ethan.   

I really think there were a number of factors at work.  The Hollywood network worked in Crash's favor because there were so many people working on it.  Then, there was the big push to get Crash noticed close to the Oscars--whether or not it's "allowed," it obviously happens.  Finally, homophobia reared its ugly head.  Old Hollywood in particular seems to have taken it as a personal affront that anyone would make a "gay cowboy" movie, as though it's a slur against John Wayne or Clint Eastwood.  Makes no sense to me, but clearly Hollywood isn't as open-minded as they pretend to be.

camom

[bnjmn3]

Lions Gate spent 4 million dollars after the nominations on campaigning!!!!! We saw the Brokeback ccrowd was hardly out with the media!

[Laundrymat]

Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).

Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?

Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.

I think that this movie got all of this attention because it is the first major release to deal primarily with race since Do the Right Thing. But Do the Right Thing was a much better picture. Further, Hollywood types like to pat themselves on the back for being "progressive" and "socially aware," so they couldn't resist supporting something that superficially appears to embody these qualities.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/rnr/139446426.html

[Krispera]

well said

[BBM Bulgaria]

I'm outraged! Crash??? That's just an ordinary movie, what is so special about it? Nothing.
Oscars suck...

[Toadily]

I do like Crash < I don't want to get into a Crash bash.  However, I do feel it's more ordinary.
I feel it's a movie any liberal intellectual could write (who has some skill)  BBM on the other hand
was more remarkable, I think partly cause Proulx is in her 70's and has a level of wisdom
that goes past intellect.

On another note, I think I know why it won.  First you have the Oprah push and the LA group,
then you have the older academy members who can't really deal with voting for BBM.  and thus you have
a narrow win I am guessing.

[thibault973]

 I'm french and I've seen Crash ( Named Collision here) in a  night Flight and this movie made me doing something I had never done in a plane : It made me sleep. It was so boring, Crash doesn't shows ainythings new, nothings interresting and I was really dissapointed when I saw that it had "stolen" the prize from Brokeback Mountain.
                ( Sorry for my broken english...)

[ethan]

I'm french and I've seen Crash ( Named Collision here) in a  night Flight and this movie made me doing something I had never done in a plane : It made me sleep. It was so boring, Crash doesn't shows ainythings new, nothings interresting and I was really dissapointed when I saw that it had "stolen" the prize from Brokeback Mountain.
                ( Sorry for my broken english...)

Hello thibault973, thanks for your posting. Welcome to this forum and enjoy your time. There is nothing best about it. The best the movie's got is the number of voting block.

[hidesert]

Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).

Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?

Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.

Racism is an important issue and the subject deserved a better film.  The reviewer is right about the muddled characters.  Sandra Bullock makes racist statements about Latinos to her husband Brendan Fraser (in front of the Latino locksmith) and later falls down the stairs and then tells her Latina maid that she is her closest friend.  Ryan Phillippe plays a liberal young cop who can't handle his racist partner Matt Dillon.  After work Phillippe picks up a young black hitchhiker on the way home and when the young kid reaches into his pocket to show him a small statute, Phillippe's character shoots and kills the kid. The Phillippe's character dumps the body and torches his car.  And it goes on and on and on. 

A secret of good writing, whether it is a novel or a screenplay is "less is more."  You don't have to hit your reader over the head with your message - they aren't stupid. You tell them and show them in many different ways.  Paul Haggis may have an Oscar for screenwriting but Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana are much better at it - so is Dan Futterman who wrote "Capote" and George Clooney who co-wrote "Good Night, and Good Luck."

 

[Toadily]

Crash shouldn't even have been nominated, much less won. It is a two-star movie at best. It fails on a narrative level, because when you have an ensemble cast that large you need to spend more than 100 minutes telling their stories. Most of the actors got about 5 or 10 minutes of screen time, with Cheadle, Howard and Dillon getting maybe 15. For a movie with a cast that large to work, it needs to be considerably longer (see Altman's Short Cuts and Anderson's Magnolia, both much better films).

Crash also fails as a message picture. While appearing to be deep, the message was basically, to quote that lameass song Ebony and Ivory, "there is good and bad in everyone." The sexist racist cop played by Dillon loved his father and helped the woman out of the car. The otherwise noble detective played by Cheadle lumped all Latinos/Hispanics together. This message -- that people are complicated -- is obvious and simplistic. And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?

Some of the acting was cringe-inducing, especially Phillipe, Fraser and Bullock.

Racism is an important issue and the subject deserved a better film.  The reviewer is right about the muddled characters.  Sandra Bullock makes racist statements about Latinos to her husband Brendan Fraser (in front of the Latino locksmith) and later falls down the stairs and then tells her Latina maid that she is her closest friend.  Ryan Phillippe plays a liberal young cop who can't handle his racist partner Matt Dillon.  After work Phillippe picks up a young black hitchhiker on the way home and when the young kid reaches into his pocket to show him a small statute, Phillippe's character shoots and kills the kid. The Phillippe's character dumps the body and torches his car.  And it goes on and on and on. 

A secret of good writing, whether it is a novel or a screenplay is "less is more."  You don't have to hit your reader over the head with your message - they aren't stupid. You tell them and show them in many different ways.  Paul Haggis may have an Oscar for screenwriting but Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana are much better at it - so is Dan Futterman who wrote "Capote" and George Clooney who co-wrote "Good Night, and Good Luck."

 

Well said, the less is more aspect is what gets me. I love Brokeback for not having to hit me over the head.  Plus each shot is like a form of artistry, even to Jack's sad little childhood room.

[matt78]

And does anyone buy that the racist DA wife played by Bullock is going to change her ways and appreciate that the maid she abuses is her best friend merely because one of her spa diva friends was not available after she suffered a very minor accident?

By the way, the whole "oh you're my maid but do you know what, you're my best friend" is SO Driving Miss Daisy!

And the "snow in LA" scene where everyone reflects is just like the "frogs" scene in Magnolia!

I would hope that a Best Picture would be somewhat original!

[Cowboy Cody]

Good Grief - As my Bubba pointed out, Crash ain't nothin' but a re-work from Robert Altman...loooks more like trash to me.

[hidesert]

...loooks more like trash to me.

And if you query Google it calls it the same thing, "Trash".  LOL

[vaporize]

Crash is such a horrible movie.  If anything, it only reinforces stereotypes.  If you notice in the beginning of the movie there is an asian woman who gets in a car accident.  I hate how Crash brings closure to everyone except for the Asian couple.  Thanks Paul Haggis for being a discriminating asshole.

[bnjmn3]

Actually, the Asian couple are at the end of the film..the wife was in the beginning  of Oscar's 2005 winner, while the husband was the human trafficker run over by our intellectual car jackers. They reunite in the hospital just in time to cash his check for the passengers in his van. I do not blame you for missing that connection..there is so much crammed into this film.  But at least we learned that racism is B A D.
 :o

[Allyce]

I saw Crash today, and I think it was most definetly NOT worthy to win Best Picture

[bnjmn3]

Individuals in the media and elsewhere are realizing that Crash was designed to make whitey feel better about racism in general. Here's my opinion on the film.

I have no problem with the talented actors who crowd this film. The story is implausible. Overall message, we are all racist but really, really good super nice, too! In brief, the white DA, his wife, and young racist cop get or get away with everything they want. Both the African-American Detective and the TV Producer sacrifice their integrity to keep their jobs and their white bosses happy. The store owner gets away with attempted murder as the Locksmith does not call the police after his daughter---wearing a magical protective cloak---is shot in the back by blank bullets. (I know.) The TV producer's wife is molested by a white racist cop... the following day they meet again (fortuitous) so the cop can save her in order to redeem himself. She disappears from the film (until a tidbit at the end) as her role in HIS redemption is complete. The racist cop sacrifices his own father's help because he does not seem to realize what an ER is for and he sabotages his Father's medical care on order to punish a HMO worker for taking jobs of whites...how many times have you seen that one on TV? Speaking of rip-offs, the DA's wife actually steals from Driving Miss Daisy when she inexplicably says to her maid, "You're my best friend." Most of all, Ludikris smiles smugly after he releases illegal immigrants the back of a van he stole from a human-trafficker he drove over earlier in the film. That smug smile is for the viewer share with the carjacker: a sense of.."ah, we are all such good people, and its good to know that racism is still a problem, but we can all get along can't we?" try saying "I think we Crash into each other,just so we can touch each other," three times without laughing out loud. Then, after your next car accident, let you insurance company know you were just reaching out to touch the other driver.  Forget DUI, sleeping, talking on the cell, or slick roads as causative. Crash and burn!!!! 

If you think Crash is a great message film ...,"You embarrass me, you embarrass yourself!!" BTW, the next time you are being carjacked, try that line and see what happens..better have your magic cloak on just in case!

[ethan]

bnjmn3, thanks for the review. Sounds pretty dramatic to me and I think that is what the academy was voting for being the best drama movie. I am so over the oscar and it bears no relevance to me whatsoforever.

[jeffjoe]

I think BBM don't lose anything, the oscar was for crash a poor movie without nothing to give, by the way crash it's a bastard copy from the mexican film "Amores perros" and the prove than the academy it's everything but less really, BBM it's a most sophisticared a honest history and i sure the next year when Brokeback mountain still in our memories nobody will remember "that film" who won the oscar
PD Please forguive my english i'm working to improved

[ms.bluesky]

crash i saw it to it wasn't that good k a movie about racist people and guns and cars and people dieing compared to bbm love story gay cowboys great actors wonderful script great director,etc urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg the academy is gonna pay ^^)

[dirtbiker]

I hope I don't open new wounds here, but I just saw Crash with my brother who was visiting over the weekend.  OMG, we felt it was sooooo  contrived and over the top, and we actually chuckled at some of the scenes.  It was an OK movie, don't get me wrong, but certainly not worthy of Best Picture.  The Academy definitely has something stuck in its behind and likely was trying to make a point.  Maybe they felt that they will be viewed as empathetic to minorities, I don't know.  It felt like the kind of movie that was made to nudge closet bigots into couch human-rights/equality advocates...      What's ironic was that my brother (who works in the legal department for HBO) was enroute to LA to meet with Sandra Bullock's lawyers regarding a letter threatening a lawsuit for using her image in promoting HBO without her consent.  My brother said to me that maybe Sandra would have a Zen moment like in the movie (Crash), and retract her demand letter. LOL