Topic: Riverton? How did Jack know?

[Toadily]

Ok,, I have seen it a lot now so I might notice stuff that is more than the average, but how did
Jack know that Ennis lived in Riverton when he moved there at least a year after Brokeback?
And thus mail him the card general delivery there?
Remember when Alma asks Ennis if they can move years earlier cause there's a place in Riverton?  I suppose the
little ranch lived on could have technically been in Riverton but the implication in what Alma said is that
it was a different town..

[Allan]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

[bnjmn3]

I think Ennis and Alma married and lived in Riverton. Alma just wanted to move "to town", right?

[jimnick]

But still, Jack must have been looking, right?  I mean four years!  If he had thought that he knew where Ennis was before that he would surely have tracked him down earlier.  He goes back to Brokeback Mountain the nest summer and asks Arly if he has heard from Ennis, so he's hunting for his man.  Would almost have to be desperate for any information to go that far.  Maybe, ...suppose that Ennis had let Alma's maiden name of Beers be known to Jack.  Then, he would have had more to go on.  Still, I wouldn't have left without full information, verified!  Heck. I would never have let him out of my sight the first, second, or third place.

I love these guys!  Wish I could hug them both.  Wish I could counsel them, we all could counsel them!!!

Jim

[Allan]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

Sorry... that should have read... "If you WANT TO find someone badly enough... You find a way."

[jimnick]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

Sorry... that should have read... "If you WANT TO find someone badly enough... You find a way."

Your point was clear and you are right!

 

[Toadily]

I am a bit embarressed cause picking at this is trekkie-ish but in the script Alma says there is a little place "in Riverton" seems if you lived in Riverton you would just call it town.  But anyways, who cares, he found him, maybe he asked around.

[bhebbe]

I think I know the answer ... I grew up in that area of the country.  We didn't have addresses.  Believe it or not, the postal worker knew where everyone lived - i.e. General Delivery - if you know where this person lives, please deliver.  When the area grew a little, a second postal worker was hired, and then we got addresses - Route 1 or Route 2.  I think was brillant for Jake to take the shot gun approach to locate his soul mate.  I think it was probably one of the many cards he wrote.  One for every post office in the state.  We would have done the same.

[jimnick]

I think I know the answer ... I grew up in that area of the country.  We didn't have addresses.  Believe it or not, the postal worker knew where everyone lived - i.e. General Delivery - if you know where this person lives, please deliver.  When the area grew a little, a second postal worker was hired, and then we got addresses - Route 1 or Route 2.  I think was brillant for Jake to take the shot gun approach to locate his soul mate.  I think it was probably one of the many cards he wrote.  One for every post office in the state.  We would have done the same.

You're right.  Alma did say the post card came General Delivery, didn't she.  I have a nephew in southeastern Kentucky, everything I send to him is sent to his name, care of general delivery, county name and zip code.  So, I guess this works in rural areas, but don't try it in San Francisco.

thanks for the insight...

Jim

[Walford]

Toadily, thanks for expanding my understanding of the story!

Jack went back to Joe Aguirre not to find work, but to find Ennis.  I think the movie makes that clear.

I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.

Wow.

[Apollonos]

I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.

OMG! I completely missed that. That, in itself, shows the depth of Jack's feelings for Ennis. When he told Ennis, "I wish I knew how to quit you," he knew, in his heart, that it was hopeless. He could NEVER quit Ennis.  *sniff*

~Jack & Ennis Forever~

[jimnick]

I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.

OMG! I completely missed that. That, in itself, shows the depth of Jack's feelings for Ennis. When he told Ennis, "I wish I knew how to quit you," he knew, in his heart, that it was hopeless. He could NEVER quit Ennis.  *sniff*

~Jack & Ennis Forever~

Oh Yeah!

~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~
~Jack & Ennis Forever~


You got it, Apollonos

Jim

[rabjr1]

Which is the base behind Ennis's not wanting to "live" together.  Everyone knows everyone in these rural areas.  I live in an urban area where it seems that everyone knows someone who knows someone in your family.  Very few degrees of separation here.

[bnjmn3]

Does the short story tell that Jack looked for Ennis? We can agree that Ennis would not track down Jack. How do we know Jack had to search for Ennis?
Ennis discusses "marrying Alma when he gets down off the mountain," and they both discussed different towns from their past while on BBM---why wouldn't they discuss where each other would live? Didn't Jack's Postcard say he was coming through Riverton...the card didn't question where Ennis lived..I do not know.  Also, in the motel scene, Ennis refers to Jack's four year absence due to being "being sore from that punch"..they don't discuss how difficult it was to find one another... I think Ang or McMurtry would have addressed the searching aspect. Don't know...

[Aela]

Here's what the story says:

"The fourth summer since BBM came on and in June Ennis had a general delivery letter from Jack Twist, the first sign of life in all that time."

Then the text of the letter as it appears in the story says, "Heard you was in Riverton."

Then when Ennis writes his 'You bet' response back, he gives his full address in Riverton. 

So somehow Jack found out, but it makes no mention of how.  I even read through their conversation in the hotel, and he doesn't say. 

[bnjmn3]

Thanks for the info! That helps..I wonder who Jack heard from??

[jason]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

I'd wondered too.  Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions.  I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest.  Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...

I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.

But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation.  In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days.  Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days.  In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted.  *We* know it was because they were parting.  He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected.  That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does

[tpe]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

I'd wondered too.  Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions.  I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest.  Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...

I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.

But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation.  In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days.  Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days.  In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted.  *We* know it was because they were parting.  He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected.  That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does

jason, very beautifully said. 

[jason]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

I'd wondered too.  Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions.  I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest.  Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...

.......

jason, very beautifully said. 

An aside:  tpe, I was rereading the screenplay again at lunch and came to the first Aguirre visit, where he tells Jack that Jack's Uncle Harold has pneumonia, and his mom asked that the message be taken to Jack.

Mrs Twist calls Aguirre near Brokeback from Lightining Flat, where she had gotten a call about Uncle Harold who could be anywhere, like Casper.

I think the bush telegraph as we call it, operates with even greater ease in country places where there are so few people, by a combo of phones, bar talk and the post office.  So I think finding stay-at-home Ennis (in a towns within a small radius) was doable for Jack.  Which is why I don't think he was looking too hard, except when he went to try for work a second time.  Jack finds Ennis later after the divorce by asking around, as he himself says. Made it sound like a hell of a task LOL.

[tpe]

An aside:  tpe, I was rereading the screenplay again at lunch and came to the first Aguirre visit, where he tells Jack that Jack's Uncle Harold has pneumonia, and his mom asked that the message be taken to Jack.

Mrs Twist calls Aguirre near Brokeback from Lightining Flat, where she had gotten a call about Uncle Harold who could be anywhere, like Casper.

I think the bush telegraph as we call it, operates with even greater ease in country places where there are so few people, by a combo of phones, bar talk and the post office.  So I think finding stay-at-home Ennis (in a towns within a small radius) was doable for Jack.  Which is why I don't think he was looking too hard, except when he went to try for work a second time.  Jack finds Ennis later after the divorce by asking around, as he himself says. Made it sound like a hell of a task LOL.

jason, yes, I also remember the part when Jack visits Ennis after the divorce.  Jack said that he had to ask 10 people to find Ennis at his new address outside of Riverton.

This is an good example of how more tightly knit a small town like Riverton was --  probably expected of many small towns out in the country, where people rely on each other a bit more.

[AnitaSmith]

Toadily, thanks for expanding my understanding of the story!
Jack went back to Joe Aguirre not to find work, but to find Ennis.  I think the movie makes that clear.
I never realized until now that Jack spent four years searching for Ennis.
Wow.

It's for these reasons that I found Jack Twist's situation so heartwrenching.  He consistently goes after Jack.  Driving up all the way from Texas to Wyoming to get with him.  When Jack makes the trek, after Ennis is divorced, and gets back in his truck deeply disappointed for he would not be spending time with Ennis, I cried along with him.

[scruffy]

I had to ask my mother about this one.  She said that General Delivery was usually a last ditch effort to find someone.  My mother was a telephone operator in the 50's and she said that Ennis probably didn't have a phone because even then Operators had telephone books from all over the world for reference.  There were also a lot of cross reference books depending on information such as steady employment and family members etc. and finding an address wasn't terribly hard if given enough information.  It was not unlike searching someone on the internet today.  They just had to use hard copies from the research library.  Finding transient people was next to impossible, however.  Records weren't updated quickly.

That is why it wasn't easy to find Ennis and probably why it took so long.  Apparently General Delivery only works in small towns and rural areas where there is a chance that the post master could match up a name with an address.  I thought this was an interesting and accurate tidbit of history since Ennis calls from a pay telephone on the street.

So it seems that General Delivery is a last ditch effort to find someone.   The last hope.   A message in a bottle with a five cent stamp.  Now doesn't that make you want to cry???  It's killing me.

[cara1158]

Back in the 60s there was no fear of identity theft or anything like that... and people in general, everywhere, were much more open and trusting... so finding someone was far, far easier.  I remember once calling a Boston post office trying to track down an old friend, I had only his (very old) address.  I told the postman the name and the old address, and said honestly I'm trying to track him down, and the postman just looked the friend up, gave me the new address, simple as that.  I can picture Jack phoning around a few post offices in the general area of Riverton, simply asking "do you know an Ennis Delmar?" and eventually finding out, yes, he lives here... heck, the postman probably said "hell yeah, him and his missus live over the laundrymat"  Jack: "what's the address? i'd like to send him a card"  Postman: "don't worry, just write 'Ennis Delmar, General Delivery, Riverton, Wyoming' and it'll get to him."

[donnaread]

Something I noticed when I was watching my DVD.  When Ennis answered Jack's postcard with "You bet", Ennis had just put his return address as Ennis Del Mar, Riverton, WY...how did Jack know where he lived?  Donna

[bnjmn3]

Got it from the Post Office worker. There is another great film in addition to BBM which references General Delivery..that is the great Maltese Falcon. A lady just sends a post card to a man in San Francisco addressed to General Delivery! Great films think alike.

[stacp]

If you find someone badly enough... You find away.

I'd wondered too.  Don't mean to be unromantic, but the book and screenplay are very abbreviated, by design, so we shouldn't expect answers to all the logitical questions.  I expect round the campfire, many nites on Brokeback, their details were discussed, same few details, again and again with whiskey to add interest.  Jack had a pretty good idea how to find Ennis if he wanted. Heck, I've found old pals again in *Chicago* whose addresses I didn't have. Phone call or two ... ask round the bars ...

I personally think Jack only started looking for Ennis late in the four year gap. He'd been busy, as had Ennis. Then the need could not be denied or pushed out of the way after all the action of a marriage, a baby, joining Lureen's family, new job, had subsided a tad.

But Annie and Ang Lee leave *much* for us to fill in, as best fits our interpretation.  In that sense we're *all* right, whether Jack spent four years looking or four days.  Besides, I think they were not admitting their feelings very overtly in the early days.  In the book Ennis says it was a year before he realised why he retched and felt so bad after they parted.  *We* know it was because they were parting.  He hadn't done this kind of thing before! -- and as men of that time they didn't think to be too affected.  That totally insufficient goodbye after starting the dusty pickup really pissed me off ... and still does

Jason, I agree with you.  I don't think Jack went looking for Ennis seriously until late in the four years.  I think after he went back to Aguirre's office the next summer and found out Ennis had not shown up, he tried to move on with his life, thinking Ennis wanted it that way.  Hence, Jack goes to Texas for rodeoing, flirts with the rodeo clown, and tries to make a life with Lureen. But Jack's heart keeps calling him back to Ennis, especially when he knows he doesn't fit in or belong with Lureen and her folks.  I tend to agree with the theory that Jack sent many postcards general delivery around Wyoming hoping he would find Ennis.

[TheBoyFromNoWhere]

Although, I'm not American and do not know the American way of thinking, I do agree with 'stacp'.  If I were Jack, I would be disappointed to find out that Ennis didin't show up.  Jack may think that 'Ok, Ennis has no interest in me... so I try to get back on track.  I will live my life without him.'  However, Jack can't stop thinking of Ennis especially when he is not happy with life.  Yes... I do too, thinking of my first love when I've got a fight with my current b/f. 

[welshwitch]

IApparentlyf Jack tried to get on with a non-Ennis life, rodeoing, meeting Lureen, getting married, having a son - it was after that that he found he still had nothing of what he really wanted. In the movie it seems that feeling dates from the time when LD and his plastic wife exclude him from their visit to their daughter and her new baby. The family he thought was his turns out to be one that doesn't include him, so he turns back to the only person he's ever loved. If you have a strong enough motivation, you can find someone - Wyoming is a big state, but there are a limited number of plausible places for Ennis to live. Jack also knows where Ennis's sister and brother live, for starters, he and Ennis foiund the job with Aguirre via the same agency, and it's true that in the past f you asked questions people just answered them, without suspecting you of trying to steal thier identity - it's not that long ago that if you were expecting someone you could ring the airline, check they were on a particular flight and see if it had landed - can't do that now.

In reality how Jack heard that Ennis was in Riverton doesn't matter - it demands, like other details, " a willing suspension of disbelief" - he found him, and that's all.

[jedibarrister]

Didn't Jack's Postcard say he was coming through Riverton...

I thought it was particularly clear that "passing through" was a ruse.  If things didn't pick up again, he'd have a few drinks and pretend to go on his way to where he was going (back to Texas).  If things picked back up, then it wouldn't matter that he'd lied about his reasons for being in Riverton.  He admitted that he "redlined" it to Riverton and then all but begged (in the book) that Ennis go away with him given that Ennis had just "shot [his] airplane outta the sky". 

[tpe]

I thought it was particularly clear that "passing through" was a ruse.  If things didn't pick up again, he'd have a few drinks and pretend to go on his way to where he was going (back to Texas).  If things picked back up, then it wouldn't matter that he'd lied about his reasons for being in Riverton.  He admitted that he "redlined" it to Riverton and then all but begged (in the book) that Ennis go away with him given that Ennis had just "shot [his] airplane outta the sky". 

Yes, I feel the same way.  At that point, Jack would have made any excuse to re-establish contact with Ennis. 

In spite of his own hopes, I think that Jack didn't expect the intensity of his reception.  After that, the ruse really didn't seem to matter...