Topic: JT's Bar & the "Brokeback" Title

[sylsoul]

Hi ALL!
Thank you to everyone for your wonderful insights, opinions and observations.  I didn't even know message boards like this existed until a couple of days ago and now I am hooked!  I am SOOOOOO glad to know that I am not the only one who has been so affected by this movie!!!! 

Anyway, just a couple of things I have noticed/been thinking about the film:

1) The last scene with Ennis & Jack together - Ennis is defending his inability to get away as often to see Jack and sites his responsibilities including his job, child support, etc.  He says that he cannot risk losing his current job because he needs the money.  He also says to Jack something like: "you forget what it's like to be broke."  I can't help but feel that AP's use of the word "broke" was deliberate as it seems that everything else about the story was so well thought out and purposeful.  Ennis could have used the word "poor" or "penniless" or a number of other words.  Perhaps I am reading too much into this??  This leads me to the question of the meaning of Brokeback Mountain as the name of the mountain and title of the movie.  Forgive me if I have missed this discussion elsewhere!  I think the meaning of brokeback has to do with the heavy burden that Ennis carries around with him imposed on him by his family and society.  This weight emotionally weighs on him and we see the physical effects of this over time as he becomes more and more sunken into himself - a mere shadow of a man towards the end of the film.  I would love to hear some thoughts on the topic!

2)  On a slightly different note, I would really love someone's else affirmation on this:  Has anyone else noticed that in the film, there is a bar across the street from the post office where Ennis picks up his postcards from Jack.  The name of the bar is "JT's Bar."  I find it hard to believe that this is a coincidence!  DId anyone else notice that??

[ethan]

Hi ALL!
Thank you to everyone for your wonderful insights, opinions and observations.  I didn't even know message boards like this existed until a couple of days ago and now I am hooked!  I am SOOOOOO glad to know that I am not the only one who has been so affected by this movie!!!! 

Hello, sylsoul - A warm welcome to you and thank you for your first post.

Anyway, just a couple of things I have noticed/been thinking about the film:

1) The last scene with Ennis & Jack together - Ennis is defending his inability to get away as often to see Jack and sites his responsibilities including his job, child support, etc.  He says that he cannot risk losing his current job because he needs the money.  He also says to Jack something like: "you forget what it's like to be broke."  I can't help but feel that AP's use of the word "broke" was deliberate as it seems that everything else about the story was so well thought out and purposeful.  Ennis could have used the word "poor" or "penniless" or a number of other words.  Perhaps I am reading too much into this??  This leads me to the question of the meaning of Brokeback Mountain as the name of the mountain and title of the movie.  Forgive me if I have missed this discussion elsewhere!  I think the meaning of brokeback has to do with the heavy burden that Ennis carries around with him imposed on him by his family and society.  This weight emotionally weighs on him and we see the physical effects of this over time as he becomes more and more sunken into himself - a mere shadow of a man towards the end of the film.  I would love to hear some thoughts on the topic!

There has been some discussion but not extensively on the meaning of "Brokeback." The topic and your observation are very interesting.

You can read the topic and feel free to add more thoughts to it

http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=544.0

2)  On a slightly different note, I would really love someone's else affirmation on this:  Has anyone else noticed that in the film, there is a bar across the street from the post office where Ennis picks up his postcards from Jack.  The name of the bar is "JT's Bar."  I find it hard to believe that this is a coincidence!  DId anyone else notice that??

I haven't noticed after 5th viewing. JT's Bar (Jack Twist?) what kind of coincidence? Please clarify.  Thanks and again welcome.

[tpe]

Hello sylsoul, and welcome.

In an interview with Proulx, an interviewer hinted to the author that the name 'Brokeback' is farly suggestive of physical harm and danger.  Although Proulx did not openly acknowledge this in her response, she certainly did not deny it.  She simply stated that the name was derived from a 'Break Back' mountain in Wyoming (which she never saw, by the way) and used the name as a starting point.

Scenes showing the mountain seem to display twin peaks, with the void in between making the mountain look very much like a monolith broken in two.  The usage of the term 'broke' strikes me more as psychological or internal -- as in its usage within the phrase 'broken in spirit' or 'broken in mind and body' or 'a broken man'.   In some sense, the young Ennis and Jack are 'damaged goods', to use a phrase used by a few reviewers of this movie.  There is something broken within them that makes the mountain itself an apt metaphor for both their blossoming love as well as their inherent imperfection.  Hence, I tend to read the name as a prefigurement of tragedy: Brokeback Mountain is the place where both Ennis and Jack find love; but it is also the place where they lose each other in their struggle to face up to a life of lost opportunities and broken promises.

[sylsoul]

Hi Ethan,

Thanks for the warm welcome.  As for the bar being called JTs, yes I was referring to J.ack T.wist.  I can't see any other reason for the bar having that name, can you?  Also, if anyone can confirm that the bar is definitely NOT called JT's and provide proof that I am in fact losing my mind and reading Way too much into every detail of the film, I would appreciate it!

Also, I meant to bring up this question in my initial post but forgot.  Correct me if I have the timing wrong, but I believe in that final scene with Jack & Ennis together when Jack is thinking back to the time at Brokeback with Ennis embracing him from behind, the short story indicates that Jack repeats a phrase to himself as Ennis is leaving, "Let Be, Let Be."  I don't believe the film included this.  I can't seem to form a reasonable opinion on the meaning of that phrase.....

[Toadily]

Hello sylsoul, and welcome.

In an interview with Proulx, an interviewer hinted to the author that the name 'Brokeback' is farly suggestive of physical harm and danger.  Although Proulx did not openly acknowledge this in her response, she certainly did not deny it.  She simply stated that the name was derived from a 'Break Back' mountain in Wyoming (which she never saw, by the way) and used the name as a starting point.

Scenes showing the mountain seem to display twin peaks, with the void in between making the mountain look very much like a monolith broken in two.  The usage of the term 'broke' strikes me more as psychological or internal -- as in its usage within the phrase 'broken in spirit' or 'broken in mind and body' or 'a broken man'.   In some sense, the young Ennis and Jack are 'damaged goods', to use a phrase used by a few reviewers of this movie.  There is something broken within them that makes the mountain itself an apt metaphor for both their blossoming love as well as their inherent imperfection.  Hence, I tend to read the name as a prefigurement of tragedy: Brokeback Mountain is the place where both Ennis and Jack find love; but it is also the place where they lose each other in their struggle to face up to a life of lost opportunities and broken promises.

That's really lovely, I do think Proulx being a poet basically did make the name for us to
project on to like this, I agree the name is apt.

[Toadily]

Hi Ethan,

Thanks for the warm welcome.  As for the bar being called JTs, yes I was referring to J.ack T.wist.  I can't see any other reason for the bar having that name, can you?  Also, if anyone can confirm that the bar is definitely NOT called JT's and provide proof that I am in fact losing my mind and reading Way too much into every detail of the film, I would appreciate it!

Also, I meant to bring up this question in my initial post but forgot.  Correct me if I have the timing wrong, but I believe in that final scene with Jack & Ennis together when Jack is thinking back to the time at Brokeback with Ennis embracing him from behind, the short story indicates that Jack repeats a phrase to himself as Ennis is leaving, "Let Be, Let Be."  I don't believe the film included this.  I can't seem to form a reasonable opinion on the meaning of that phrase.....

I feel that "let be let be" was Jack Accepting that that may be all he can get from Ennis.
I mean he wanted more, but he knew and as the ss says, one reason Ennis held him like that was he was able to more freely cause he wasn't looking at Jack directly, sadly his homophobia he knew was there.

[tpe]

Hello sylsoul, and welcome.

In an interview with Proulx, an interviewer hinted to the author that the name 'Brokeback' is farly suggestive of physical harm and danger.  Although Proulx did not openly acknowledge this in her response, she certainly did not deny it.  She simply stated that the name was derived from a 'Break Back' mountain in Wyoming (which she never saw, by the way) and used the name as a starting point.

Scenes showing the mountain seem to display twin peaks, with the void in between making the mountain look very much like a monolith broken in two.  The usage of the term 'broke' strikes me more as psychological or internal -- as in its usage within the phrase 'broken in spirit' or 'broken in mind and body' or 'a broken man'.   In some sense, the young Ennis and Jack are 'damaged goods', to use a phrase used by a few reviewers of this movie.  There is something broken within them that makes the mountain itself an apt metaphor for both their blossoming love as well as their inherent imperfection.  Hence, I tend to read the name as a prefigurement of tragedy: Brokeback Mountain is the place where both Ennis and Jack find love; but it is also the place where they lose each other in their struggle to face up to a life of lost opportunities and broken promises.

That's really lovely, I do think Proulx being a poet basically did make the name for us to
project on to like this, I agree the name is apt.

Thanks Toadily.  You are right about Proulx being a prose poet.  Not a single word in her story is haphazardly chosen, IMO.  And in every sense, the movie can also be viewed as Ang Lee's poem  -- less monumental than Proulx's story, but perhaps more lyrical.  The scenes set in the mountain are pure visual poetry.  But in either case (i.e., story or movie), the name does hint on an impending tragedy of sorts.

[jason]

Hello sylsoul, and welcome.

In an interview with Proulx, an interviewer hinted to the author that the name 'Brokeback' is farly suggestive of physical harm and danger.  Although Proulx did not openly acknowledge this in her response, she certainly did not deny it.  She simply stated that the name was derived from a 'Break Back' mountain in Wyoming (which she never saw, by the way) and used the name as a starting point.

Scenes showing the mountain seem to display twin peaks, with the void in between making the mountain look very much like a monolith broken in two.  The usage of the term 'broke' strikes me more as psychological or internal -- as in its usage within the phrase 'broken in spirit' or 'broken in mind and body' or 'a broken man'.   In some sense, the young Ennis and Jack are 'damaged goods', to use a phrase used by a few reviewers of this movie.  There is something broken within them that makes the mountain itself an apt metaphor for both their blossoming love as well as their inherent imperfection.  Hence, I tend to read the name as a prefigurement of tragedy: Brokeback Mountain is the place where both Ennis and Jack find love; but it is also the place where they lose each other in their struggle to face up to a life of lost opportunities and broken promises.

Thanks, tpe. Didn't know of this interview.  How cd I have missed it?  I've kept copies of all the important reviews.

Do you perhaps know where this interview was published/aired?

Thanks again.

[tpe]

Thanks, tpe. Didn't know of this interview.  How cd I have missed it?  I've kept copies of all the important reviews.

Do you perhaps know where this interview was published/aired?

Thanks again.

You are welcome jason.  Proulx mentions this in several of her interviews, but the most insightful is the following:

http://www.planetjh.com/testa_2005_12_07_proulx.html

Note that this contains her explanation of how she decided on the name 'Brokeback'.  I think since them, one of the papers have followed-up on this.  The paper did not find a 'Break Back' mountain, as Proulx mentioned, but a 'Brokenback' mountain, I believe...

[bnjmn3]

Anyone notice the Bar where Ennis is beaten after Thanksgiving is the "Black and Blue Eagle"?

[Cowboy Cody]

You Bet. Hhmmmmm Black and Blue and Eagle in the same sentence. Sounds like a gay leather/denim bar to me!

[tpe]

2)  On a slightly different note, I would really love someone's else affirmation on this:  Has anyone else noticed that in the film, there is a bar across the street from the post office where Ennis picks up his postcards from Jack.  The name of the bar is "JT's Bar."  I find it hard to believe that this is a coincidence!  DId anyone else notice that??

I just came back from the movie.  I can now confirm your hunch: the name of the bar opposite the Riverton Post Office is INDEED JT's Bar.

Thanks!

[sylsoul]

Thanks tpe...There's so much to notice with each viewing!!

[*Froggy*]

Thanks tpe...There's so much to notice with each viewing!!

And I love the fact that everyone shares all the little details here!

Thankx everyone, thankx tpe 

[Cowboy Cody]

I'll tell you if that isn't a sign that the movie is destined, nothing is. JT's Bar (I say use a nice script and call it Jack Twist's)

[tpe]

Thanks tpe...There's so much to notice with each viewing!!

Hi sylsoul.  I just came back from another viewing (theatre was PACKED).  Not so sure if it is JT'S or JTS (w/o the apostrophe) -- still amazing, though!!! 

[jason]

Thanks, tpe. Didn't know of this interview.  How cd I have missed it?  I've kept copies of all the important reviews.

Do you perhaps know where this interview was published/aired?

Thanks again.

You are welcome jason.  Proulx mentions this in several of her interviews, but the most insightful is the following:

http://www.planetjh.com/testa_2005_12_07_proulx.html

Note that this contains her explanation of how she decided on the name 'Brokeback'.  I think since them, one of the papers have followed-up on this.  The paper did not find a 'Break Back' mountain, as Proulx mentioned, but a 'Brokenback' mountain, I believe...

tpe!  Many thanks.  Just read the whole interview, with relish.  I notice several points recur from one other interview I've run across.