Author Topic: "One shot deal"  (Read 21559 times)

Offline kcristob

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"One shot deal"
« on: Jan 25, 2006, 05:22 PM »
I've always interpreted Ennis' "one shot deal" comment to mean just here and now.  Not as a literal one time deal - but somthing that will not be continuing off the mountain.  With the complexities after their first night - it can be confusing.   

But I'm curious, do others agree that he was speaking more generally?  rather than saying that last night was it?  He does say it using current tense "This is a one-shot thing we've got going"


Offline Toadily

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #1 on: Jan 25, 2006, 05:24 PM »
I've always interpreted Ennis' "one shot deal" comment to mean just here and now.  Not as a literal one time deal - but somthing that will not be continuing off the mountain.  With the complexities after their first night - it can be confusing.   

But I'm curious, do others agree that he was speaking more generally?  rather than saying that last night was it?  He does say it using current tense "This is a one-shot thing we've got going"



I'm 99 percent certain he meant that one night.  It was typical denial from our boy.
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Offline Kindred

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #2 on: Jan 25, 2006, 05:34 PM »
Didn't Jack have this line in the short story?  I left my copy at work so I can't confirm :/

I might be wrong, but I thought there was a line in the short story that was said instead by the other in the movie.

edit- and to the original question, I thought he was referring to that one time, thus why he seemed so reluctant to enter the tent the second time.
« Last Edit: Jan 25, 2006, 05:36 PM by Kindred »

Offline kcristob

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #3 on: Jan 25, 2006, 05:46 PM »
yes you're right.  Here it is:

"As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddamn word except once Ennis said, "I'm not no queer," and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one-shot thing. Nobody's business but ours.'

Which I think lends some credence to the idea of the One-shot being the summer????

Offline tpe

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #4 on: Jan 25, 2006, 06:02 PM »
We should note that the film does not follow the passage from the story in the details.  The film places the exchange immediately after the first night, to show a sense of disquiet and tension that enters the relationship of our two protagonists at that point.  The story leaves the exact placement of the exchange ambiguous.

In addition, there is a strong psychological shift associated with the transfer of 'A one-shot thing' from Jack to Ennis.  Ennis is ASSURING HIMSELF as much as ASSERTING TO Jack about the passing nature of their sexual involvement.  There is also a subtle shift involved in changing the statement "I'm not no queer" into the "YOU KNOW I ain't queer" used by Ennis in the movie.  IT again DEMANDS CONFIRMATION from Jack that he (Ennis) is NOT a queer -- so important to Ennis' peace of mind, as demanded of him by his very own homophobic feelings.

Personally, I had interpreted the 'one-shot thing' AS IS PORTRAYED IN THE MOVIE as a declaration that sex between them will not happen again after the first night.   In the story, there is no sense of such a definite duration.
« Last Edit: Jan 25, 2006, 06:08 PM by tpe »

Offline Toadily

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #5 on: Jan 25, 2006, 06:05 PM »
yes you're right.  Here it is:

"As it did go. They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down, and at evening in the fire glow, quick, rough, laughing and snorting, no lack of noises, but saying not a goddamn word except once Ennis said, "I'm not no queer," and Jack jumped in with "Me neither. A one-shot thing. Nobody's business but ours.'

Which I think lends some credence to the idea of the One-shot being the summer????

Good point, in the SS I think that is what it meant, but in the movie, it was denial.  I mean in the 2nd tent scene Jack wasn't expecting him per se. 
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Offline ethan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #6 on: Jan 25, 2006, 07:02 PM »
We should note that the film does not follow the passage from the story in the details.  The film places the exchange immediately after the first night, to show a sense of disquiet and tension that enters the relationship of our two protagonists at that point.  The story leaves the exact placement of the exchange ambiguous.

In addition, there is a strong psychological shift associated with the transfer of 'A one-shot thing' from Jack to Ennis.  Ennis is ASSURING HIMSELF as much as ASSERTING TO Jack about the passing nature of their sexual involvement.  There is also a subtle shift involved in changing the statement "I'm not no queer" into the "YOU KNOW I ain't queer" used by Ennis in the movie.  IT again DEMANDS CONFIRMATION from Jack that he (Ennis) is NOT a queer -- so important to Ennis' peace of mind, as demanded of him by his very own homophobic feelings.

Personally, I had interpreted the 'one-shot thing' AS IS PORTRAYED IN THE MOVIE as a declaration that sex between them will not happen again after the first night.   In the story, there is no sense of such a definite duration.

I am with you and many great points. The short story and the movie do differ in terms of timing of the "one shot thing." I tend to think "one shot thing" written in the story refers to that summer, rather than the first tent as suggested in the movie.

Also, Jack's reply to Ennis was "it is nobody's business but ours." For Jack to make this encouraging statement, it seems they both had bonded even before the first tent.
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Offline rikcub

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #7 on: Jan 25, 2006, 09:37 PM »
I've always interpreted Ennis' "one shot deal" comment to mean just here and now.  Not as a literal one time deal - but somthing that will not be continuing off the mountain.  With the complexities after their first night - it can be confusing.   

But I'm curious, do others agree that he was speaking more generally?  rather than saying that last night was it?  He does say it using current tense "This is a one-shot thing we've got going"



He didn't say it was a one shot deal what we did....he said what we got going.  He meant for the summer on the mountain.

Offline kcristob

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #8 on: Jan 26, 2006, 04:36 PM »
"He didn't say it was a one shot deal what we did....he said what we got going.  He meant for the summer on the mountain."
 Yes rikcub! - I agree



I thought about this last night (while not sleeping - AGAIN - thinking about the movie.)

I begin to bore myself with this constant analyzing -- but I can't stop!

I decided last night (at least for my interpretation) that Ennis DID indeed mean for the summer.  It's said in the present tense - not in the past.  Otherwise it would have been "that was a one-shot deal."

And it is keeping within Ennis' behavior that he is STILL shy and reticent to enter the tent that night.  Even though he has sanctioned it - it's still awkward and unknown territory for him.  He's not used to needing anyone, and he certainly wasn't expecting to need Jack.

Offline ragtimecowboy

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #9 on: Jan 26, 2006, 05:05 PM »
The book makes it pretty clear it was going to be a summer thing. In the movie, Ennis gives us the impression it's going to be just for that one night. Jack of course has hopes for more, and Cupid made it last for twenty years.

Offline Allan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #10 on: Jan 26, 2006, 06:29 PM »
Quote

Good point, in the SS I think that is what it meant, but in the movie, it was denial.  I mean in the 2nd tent scene Jack wasn't expecting him per se. 
Quote

WASN'T EXPECTING HIM!!!!!  Jack is stripped down, and brushed and combed like a bride on his wedding night.  Ennis has NOT gone off to tend the flock for the second night in a row.  Ennis, by the fire, can see Jack in the tent by the lantern light.  Jack can see Ennis by the fire.  Ennis comes into the tent with his hat in his hands, lowered, almost as if covering his genitals... this is a carefully choreographed and performed courtship dance.  Jack is expecting Ennis... big time. 

Offline kcristob

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #11 on: Jan 26, 2006, 06:33 PM »
yeah....mmmmmm what a scene.........

I want my dvd!

Offline Apollonos

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #12 on: Jan 28, 2006, 05:10 AM »
Quote
I want my dvd!

YEAH!!! I understand the the DVD is scheduled for release in April for Europe and in May for the U.S. Maybe if we sent in a massive petition to Focus Films asking for an early release (tomorrow would be nice  ;D), they might speed things up a bit ,,, er, that is, A LOT!

Offline rabjr1

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #13 on: Jan 28, 2006, 09:35 AM »


   And when will the "extended" DVD be released?
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #14 on: Jan 28, 2006, 09:38 AM »


   And when will the "extended" DVD be released?

in the UK they have removed the DVD from the amazon listing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna kill the amazon people!!!
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Offline Soldier-of-Rome

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #15 on: Jan 28, 2006, 09:58 AM »
Even though I agree with the perspective that Ennis' "one shot deal" remark was meant to cover the summer, the other half of this part of the movie (for me) is that Ennis has already told Jack he's getting married "in November." The way I took it is that, in Ennis' mind and way of thinking, they are covered for the summer with what is happening (e.g. what they are doing), but then once it is over and he gets married, that's it.  Perhaps, almost warning Jack not to have any expectations or lofty ideas about the future. What's amazing about the movie is that we come to realize Ennis' involvement much later in the movie (when Jack is flashbacking) with the prolifically known "hug from behind."

Anyway, I am no literary giant by any stretch, but that's how I interpreted it.

Offline ethan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #16 on: Jan 28, 2006, 10:57 AM »
Even though I agree with the perspective that Ennis' "one shot deal" remark was meant to cover the summer, the other half of this part of the movie (for me) is that Ennis has already told Jack he's getting married "in November." The way I took it is that, in Ennis' mind and way of thinking, they are covered for the summer with what is happening (e.g. what they are doing), but then once it is over and he gets married, that's it.  Perhaps, almost warning Jack not to have any expectations or lofty ideas about the future. What's amazing about the movie is that we come to realize Ennis' involvement much later in the movie (when Jack is flashbacking) with the prolifically known "hug from behind."

Anyway, I am no literary giant by any stretch, but that's how I interpreted it.

Soilder-of-Rome, I too agree that one shot deal is meant for the summer. If we have to really examine Ennis and the one shot deal thing (we already have in many aspects), the key is his engagement to Alma before everything started.

Would it still be a one shot deal if Ennis was not engaged at the time? I tend to think that Ennis would have been less concerned.
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Offline Soldier-of-Rome

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #17 on: Jan 28, 2006, 01:16 PM »

Soilder-of-Rome, I too agree that one shot deal is meant for the summer. If we have to really examine Ennis and the one shot deal thing (we already have in many aspects), the key is his engagement to Alma before everything started.

Would it still be a one shot deal if Ennis was not engaged at the time? I tend to think that Ennis would have been less concerned.

And that's a great point about Ennis. We could really examine this to the point of applying the Kinsey scale and all that because the movie makes Ennis out to be either absolutely faithful to Jack by not even showing any interest in other men or possibly only homosexual when it comes to Jack. I am not that "switched on" when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of human behavior and what the research says.  To answer your question, I would agree that Ennis would be less concerned. Again, the other side is if Ennis doesn't or won't see past the moment or immediate future.  The movie makes him out to be kind of a simple guy, so planning for his daughters' education probably isn't in his mental catalog. But, I could speculate that he may not see himself as gay or even that he's falling in love, so even if he weren't going to marry, he may have still said the words because of a kind of denial he has about everything that's happening.

Wow, we could sure beat this one to death.  It's a beautiful moment in an oblique way, though.  It's almost as though he is conceding or acquiescing to his feelings toward Jack. Like he's thinking, "I am going to allow myself this pleasure and luxury up until it is time to stop."

Offline ethan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #18 on: Jan 28, 2006, 01:37 PM »
But, I could speculate that he may not see himself as gay or even that he's falling in love, so even if he weren't going to marry, he may have still said the words because of a kind of denial he has about everything that's happening.

Wow, we could sure beat this one to death.  It's a beautiful moment in an oblique way, though.  It's almost as though he is conceding or acquiescing to his feelings toward Jack. Like he's thinking, "I am going to allow myself this pleasure and luxury up until it is time to stop."

Yes, Ennis may not see himself as "gay" but could not explain his attraction to same sex. This confusion is compounded by his early childhood and his engagement to Alma. Did he plan on going his "normal" life? I think so. When he and Jack parted outside of office trailer - he repeated his marriage with Alma and before his four years without Jack, he said "I guess I will see you around." That really bothers me because of Ennis's selfishness to have a good time and draw someone into his life...then "abandon." But knowing Ennis, that is who he is. Drawing from my own personal experience, my Ennis just did the exact same thing - drawing distance as soon as our attraction surfaced. 

To sum it up, denial and cover seem to be a logical response from Ennis. Only until 4 years later, he could no longer deny and cover, everything started unfolding.

You are right. We could really beat this one to death. Ain't no reins on this one.

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Offline stephan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #19 on: Jan 28, 2006, 04:36 PM »
That really bothers me because of Ennis's selfishness to have a good time and draw someone into his life...then "abandon."

Don't say it's true !!! What about his outbreak of impotent violence when Jack informs him that Aguirre has ordered them off the mountain  :-\ That punch to Jack's face... which he kept musing on for four years. Abandon ? No way ! He hadn't had time to figure out what was happening to him, let alone figure out how he would deal with the end of that job. I call that short-sightedness, not selfishness.
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Offline ethan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #20 on: Jan 28, 2006, 04:41 PM »
Don't say it's true !!! What about his outbreak of impotent violence when Jack informs him that Aguirre has ordered them off the mountain  :-\ That punch to Jack's face... which he kept musing on for four years. Abandon ? No way ! He hadn't had time to figure out what was happening to him, let alone figure out how he would deal with the end of that job. I call that short-sightedness, not selfishness.
Stephan

See what emotion can do to someone? After reading your post, I do think "selfishness" and "abandon" are harsh and not true characterization of Ennis. I am sure Ennis was torn and didn't know exactly what to do. I can see the frastration and anger from Ennis when ordered to leave Jack and his Brokeback Mountain.
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Offline stephan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #21 on: Jan 28, 2006, 04:53 PM »
See what emotion can do to someone? After reading your post, I do think "selfishness" and "abandon" are harsh and not true characterization of Ennis. I am sure Ennis was torn and didn't know exactly what to do. I can see the frastration and anger from Ennis when ordered to leave Jack and his Brokeback Mountain.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were completely wrong. Drawing distance as soon as attraction starts... you said it, sweetheart, why oh why do they do it ??
Stephan

Offline ethan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #22 on: Jan 28, 2006, 05:03 PM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were completely wrong. Drawing distance as soon as attraction starts... you said it, sweetheart, why oh why do they do it ??
Stephan

Stephen, no worries. I think that is what BBM is about - to explain why one would draw distance as soon as attraction starts. It was a  *forbidden* love. Ennis and Jack both knew it but no one can't deny the true feelings because "love is a force of nature." 
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Offline stephan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #23 on: Jan 28, 2006, 05:21 PM »
It was a  *forbidden* love. Ennis and Jack both knew it but no one can't deny the true feelings because "love is a force of nature." 

This film is one helluva force of nature too. Irrestible, I've promised myself my third viewing this week. Stephan

Offline shieldmaid

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #24 on: Jan 28, 2006, 07:47 PM »
I just wanted to point out, too, from the short story, that Ennis asks Jack if he's been with any other guys, when they are in the motel, and says something like, "I like doin it with women but sure never been nothing like this.  I never had no thoughts of doin it with another guy but I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinking about you."  Then he asks Jack if he ever has thoughts of any other men, and the implication is clear--that Jack has slept with other men (he's been "riding more than bulls" or something like that) but he reassures Ennis that he's the only one.  And I think that's true--in spite of his needing physical affection that he doesn't or can't get from Lureen.  To me this conversation demonstrates that Ennis knows he has a love specifically for Jack--perhaps that he loves him more than any other human being.  Sighhhhh . . . .

peace--
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Offline Toadily

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #25 on: Jan 28, 2006, 07:52 PM »
I just wanted to point out, too, from the short story, that Ennis asks Jack if he's been with any other guys, when they are in the motel, and says something like, "I like doin it with women but sure never been nothing like this.  I never had no thoughts of doin it with another guy but I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinking about you."  Then he asks Jack if he ever has thoughts of any other men, and the implication is clear--that Jack has slept with other men (he's been "riding more than bulls" or something like that) but he reassures Ennis that he's the only one.  And I think that's true--in spite of his needing physical affection that he doesn't or can't get from Lureen.  To me this conversation demonstrates that Ennis knows he has a love specifically for Jack--perhaps that he loves him more than any other human being.  Sighhhhh . . . .

peace--

Good points, Jake G says he thinks ennis loves more deeply cause he doesn't find another man like Jack does (although as we have discussed here, it doesn't seem the ranch hand affair works out for Jack.)
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Offline City Slickin' Cowboy

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #26 on: Jan 29, 2006, 02:42 AM »
I, unfortunately, have not had the benefit of reading the story yet. 

In the movie I remember hearing Ennis saying "this is a one-shot thing we got goin' here."  I had no choice but to believe Ennis was referring to their remaining time on BBM. There was certainly an element of denial evident from Ennis.  However, the fact that he wasn't mean to Jack on that hill meant (to me) that Ennis was beginning to acknowledge something was there that he couldn't explain.

Even before Ennis entered the tent later that evening, it was obvious he was struggling with own desire.  Had this not been the case he would have surely headed back to the sheep prior to sundown.  Anyway, what followed was one of the most tender and romantic sequences I have ever seen on film.
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Offline francis.shim

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #27 on: Jan 29, 2006, 03:31 AM »
I, unfortunately, have not had the benefit of reading the story yet. 

In the movie I remember hearing Ennis saying "this is a one-shot thing we got goin' here."  I had no choice but to believe Ennis was referring to their remaining time on BBM. There was certainly an element of denial evident from Ennis.  However, the fact that he wasn't mean to Jack on that hill meant (to me) that Ennis was beginning to acknowledge something was there that he couldn't explain.

Even before Ennis entered the tent later that evening, it was obvious he was struggling with own desire.  Had this not been the case he would have surely headed back to the sheep prior to sundown.  Anyway, what followed was one of the most tender and romantic sequences I have ever seen on film.

I just wanted to come in here, because it is really great to see other people really looking at this lines in the movie and story...

I am hard-of-hearing and visually impaired, so you guys have to help me with the movie part (that is why I want the DVD soooooo badly)... but I did remember Ennis saying "one-shot thing goin' here" too so I agree that it kind of refered to the remaining time.  The short story actually seemed more ambiguous... but I have to admit a lot of things in the movie were just that: ambiguous, with lots of loose ends... and so I have to tell you guys the truth... and please don't laught at me.... well, too much...

I really thought that in the movie, when Ennis said that.... it would translate into something like this:

   "Don't tell anyone about this, because we have only one shot at this and we better get it right, because if we screw it up we are dead"

One target... one chance... one shot... that was where my head was at...

What y'all think?

Frank

Offline proulxfan

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #28 on: Jan 29, 2006, 10:11 AM »
I, unfortunately, have not had the benefit of reading the story yet. 

In the movie I remember hearing Ennis saying "this is a one-shot thing we got goin' here."  I had no choice but to believe Ennis was referring to their remaining time on BBM. There was certainly an element of denial evident from Ennis.  However, the fact that he wasn't mean to Jack on that hill meant (to me) that Ennis was beginning to acknowledge something was there that he couldn't explain.

Even before Ennis entered the tent later that evening, it was obvious he was struggling with own desire.  Had this not been the case he would have surely headed back to the sheep prior to sundown.  Anyway, what followed was one of the most tender and romantic sequences I have ever seen on film.
Good points. I had interpreted the movie line to mean we're only having sex this one time, but I think the other interpretation works just as well if not better. And I hadn't noticed about Ennis hanging around again on the second night. You're right he should have been off to the sheep hours ago.
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Offline Titus

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Re: "One shot deal"
« Reply #29 on: Jan 29, 2006, 11:54 AM »
Yes, I have to come down on the side of the "one shot" being the summer.  Ennis couldn't let go, everything had to be self-contained, under control.  He feared losing control "if this thing grabs us...".  Up on the mountain they were free, free to be.  Ennis ' engagement is a committment that he had before Jack, one that he must follow through on coming down from Brokeback.  It's also a natural cut off to the unleashing of his emotions towards Jack, stuff it all back into a box and be a "real" man.  There's a day coming when he will go back to his everyday, normal life, but for now he is free to experience this new, frightening thing that has overtaken him and simply enjoy Jack; to revel in loving another human being as he has never known before.  That's why he's so angry when Aguirre brings them down early.  He's not ready for this "one shot" to end, he is not prepared to lose Jack now.

Rancher?  Did I read rancher?  The rancher in Texas I feel was very much a current thing with Jack up till his death.  The story has him at it with other men during those four years straight after that summer, but the movie paints a picture of a man whose heart is broken after Ennis gets in touch about his divorce (Why?  Did he hope for just a moment that this just might be his opportunity to really be with Jack for keeps, only to lose his courage by the time Jack drives all the way to Wyoming?) and so Jack drives off to Mexico and finds comfort where he can?

So, too, the bit where his dad says that Jack had big plans to bring this Texan up to the Twist homeplace to start a new life après Lureen.  Dad knows what this is all about, he’s fuming.  But was this Jack’s response to that truly horrible scene that really ends it where Ennis is on his knees in such pain that he begs Jack to “leave me be”?   :'(Was Jack really making a final break and going to leave Ennis?  I wonder.  In my mind there was either a grieving rancher down in Childress missing his buddy, or maybe he was throttled with a tire iron too.  Six Days Later and Still Crying, Titus.
"Holding on to this moment of love and forgiveness mediated by this beautiful, loving boy.  Whose heart and soul had passed through the shadows and remained unsullied, undefeated."  The Redemption of Ennis Del Mar