Author Topic: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***  (Read 54756 times)

Offline jimmypage

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #30 on: Feb 17, 2006, 05:33 PM »
Thank you, dear   :-*

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #31 on: Feb 17, 2006, 05:44 PM »
Thank you, dear   :-*

Di niente  ;)
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Offline hidesert

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #32 on: Feb 17, 2006, 09:31 PM »
I don't understand how people have missed the connections, also.  During the scene where Jack decides to shave before asking about the job, when he looked in the truck's rear-view mirror, and adjusted it to see Ennis better, I heard a whipsered, "Aha..." from my husband, indicating, to me, that he knew exactly what Jack was doing, and that it had nothing to do with shaving.  It was what a straight guy would do if he saw a woman he was interested in.  So either the people that you've heard that comment from are lying, or are really clueless about being subtle in their actions when interested in someone.  I hope I don't sound accusatory; that's not my intention at all.  It's just hard to believe that someone can miss the clues indicating a sexual interest.

Yeah a guy undresses an attractive woman with his eyes so any straight guy should see it.   Jack was undressing Ennis with his eyes through the side mirror under the pretense of shaving.   Straight cruising/gay cruising - it's not that different.   

   
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2006, 09:50 PM by hidesert »

Offline hidesert

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #33 on: Feb 17, 2006, 09:49 PM »
Quote
He could smell Jack -- the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain.

I've always liked that sentence -  it's a powerful description.  You can smell it.  Another one is the first description of their room in the Motel Siesta:

Quote
The room stank of semen and smoke and sweat and whiskey, of old carpet and sour hay, saddle leather, shit and cheap soap.

I'm primarily a reader and I read BBM long before the movie came out.  It's always interesting so see how faithfully a screenwriter is able to adapt a piece of literature and McMurtry and Ossana did very well.   With the short story you have to use your imagination - with movies they are there in front of you.   

Reminds me of the old story about the early days of television.  A young kid was asked which he liked more, radio or TV.  He said he liked the radio more - because the pictures were better.

« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2006, 10:31 PM by hidesert »

Offline TJ

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #34 on: Feb 24, 2006, 01:47 AM »
I won't take time to make the comparisons between the book, the screenplay and the movie; but, the screenplay made some changes in the original story and then in turn, the movie's script made some changes in the screenplay.

And, since Larry McMurtry admitted that he added women to Annie Proulx's original story in a Time magazine interview, I think that he overdid it and added to much heterosexual activity to the original story.

In the book, Lureen only talks one time and that is when Ennis called Jack's Childress, Texas, phone number after getting the postcard with "DECEASED" on it. Other than that one scene, no body outside of Wyoming talks.

All of the direct quotes conversation in the book have Ennis being one of those who is speaking. Jack does quote Aguirre when the boys are in the room at the Motel Siesta when he and Ennis are talking. 

Oh, Jack Twist NEVER worked for Lureen's father. And after his father-in-law died, Lureen inherited the company and gave Jack a vague managerial title. Jack did not sell farm equipment; he bought it.

(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline arizonamman

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #35 on: Feb 24, 2006, 08:01 PM »
I won't take time to make the comparisons between the book, the screenplay and the movie; but, the screenplay made some changes in the original story and then in turn, the movie's script made some changes in the screenplay.
TJ,
Those are good points. It has always been my contention that the screenplay not only adds to the story but subtracts as well. As others have said as well, a great deal of attention was given to developing the female characters.

The raw sexuality in the short story and blatently evident in heterosexual films for over a decade is suprisingly and suspiciously absent in the screenplay for Brokeback Mountain. I talked about this in another thread but the first most obvious is Jack's "Gun's goin' off" gasp at the height of his orgasm in the tent scene (short story p-14). It would have had no effect on the film's rating nor turn it into a "gay porn scene." Not including it made this scene appear more "animalistic" instead of 2 men experiencing pleasure. Overall, that may have been Anne's intent but she included the "gun's goin' off" to make it more human and show that not only Ennis was having all the fun.   ::)

See also page 12 of the short story (in the screnplay to short story book):
"Ennis lay spread-eagled, spent and wet, breathing deep, still half tumescent . . ."
I know Hollywood is scared of showing a penis in anything but a full flaccid state but they do still show them. They were shown in Brokeback Mountain only from a distance when the actors jumped off the cliff (but we never saw them frolicking or kissing while they were in the water, did we?) Most recently, remember the scene shot from behind Colin Farrell in Alexander as he was getting in bed just before motioning to his male lover to join him? That movie had a great deal more suggestiveness all the way around but was welcome from the "main stream" movie-going public.

Finally, although I understand that the kissing in the beginning would have been awkward for 2 straight men who had not made love to another before but in the short story Anne made some specific references to how powerful the kisses were in later years. The one at their first reunion even drew blood. However, I don't remember seeing a lot of close-ups of kissing in the movie.

I just viewed PROOF (Gwyneth Paltrow, Anthony Hopkins, Jake Gyllenhaal) and the kissing between Jake and Gwyneth was much more believeable. I don't recollect any close up shots of Ennis' and Jack's lips locking, like top lip over bottom lip. It was as if the camera were afraid of getting too close. Any one else have that observation?

Nevertheless, both the short story and the screenplay each have their own strengths as does the final movie print.
[/font][/color]
David

Offline backtobrokeback

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #36 on: Feb 24, 2006, 10:48 PM »
I've thought about the "Gun's goin' off!" line, because I missed it.  I think that if it had been included, it would have produced a big laugh from the audience, and that in turn would have broken the intensity of that moment and for "those new to the idea of mansex" it would have given them an exit, a way to get out of that tent, and thus dismiss the sex, and the sexuality behind it.  By not giving a way to vent, that scene sticks with people, really hits them.

I don't think there was a chance in heaven of us getting any "jouncing the mattress", let alone a "half-tumescent" Heath Ledger.  Not gonna happen.  That scene was cut short in two ways, (sex and the conversation too), because both McMurtry/Ossana and Ang Lee had other ideas for it.  The question is, what kind of effect would it have had on the movie, other than to get it an NC-17 rating, an "unrated cut", and no theater contracts?  Much as we feel gay sex on screen is a non-issue, it IS an issue.  Wrongly, I agree, but there you are.  Have other "gay films" been explicit?  Jeffrey?  My Own Private Idaho?

btb
He pressed his face into the fabric and breathed in slowly through his mouth and nose, hoping for the faintest smoke and mountain sage and salty sweet stink of Jack but there was no real scent, only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands. Make the pledge! Go Back to Brokeback whenever, however you can. Join the BTB Project.

Offline ranchgal

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #37 on: Feb 25, 2006, 12:39 AM »
The main thing I miss in the movie that I simply loved in the book was the power of Ennis' speaking to jack in the motel room.   I really miss ennis not opening up more and telling Jack about his reaction to their separation.  About his puking his guts out, and His line about "Took me a year to realize I never should have let you get out of my sight" just strikes me,  I wanted to see it---and when I didn't I missed it!

The last scene together is powerful too--but I have to say I love the book more than the movie here, because I think it would stand even more powerful without Ennis declaring that Jack should leave him alone.
but with or without the dialog, the whole scene of ennis' collapse is so moving that it stands by itself both way almost equally.

I do love the scene by the fire, when Ennis is looking at the stars---and he is talking about his prayer of thanks.   that isn't in the book, but it adds so much to the movie--even though you know he isn't thinking about the harmonica at all. 

I think the movie stayed as close to the book as it could and did a masterful job of it.
I love both equally---I am glad I have the book, am glad I have seen the movie more than once, and will be estatic when I can have the dvd in my home.
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2006, 12:41 AM by ranchgal »

Offline HLJG

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #38 on: Jan 21, 2008, 01:20 AM »
One incredibly touching scenes in the movie (as well as the screenplay--but NOT in the short story) is the second time in the tent. Ennis sits alone by the fire, while Jack is in the tent getting ready for bed. Ennis does not go up to the sheep--he looks over and thinks about what he wants to do. he gets up and enters the tent. Jack takes his hand, says 'it's alright', and kisses Ennis.
Such a contrast to their first encounter--and one of the most powerful scenes in the movie/screenplay, in my opinion.  It is tender, nurturing, loving and so very endearing.  I think adding that scene was important on several levels. Ennis was so starved for affection but so torn with fear and shame. Jack was nurturing and reassuring/loving.   Just incredible.
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Offline HLJG

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #39 on: Jan 21, 2008, 01:41 AM »
In the motel scene, in 1967, a few were expressed in the short story that were not in the movie that kind of bothered me.

Ennis says to Jack that he has been thinking 'all this time' if he (himeslf) was gay--he says he know's he's not cause they "both got wives and kids"--then he says 'right?' 

 He says to Jack that he "likes doin it with women, but that 'ain't nothin like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinkin about you".
He asks Jack if he 'does it with other guys", to which Jack says "Shit, no---You know that".

Ennis goes on to tell Jack that when they parted, 4 years prior, that he pulled over with bad stomach cramps. He tells Jack "Took me a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights.        Too late then--by a long, long while."

In the screenplay Jack tells Ennis about his return to Aguirre the following summer--looking for work and asking about Ennis. Jack says that "Maybe somebody seen us that summer--and tells him that Aguirre said "You boys found a way to make the time pass up there, didn't you?"
Now, it does say (in the short story) that Jack neglected to tell Ennis that Aguirre said, "You guys wasn't gettin paid to leave the dogs baby-sit the sheep, while you stemmed the rose".
Ennis was so afraid of being found out, and I think in the movie it would have added to his fear if he knew what Aguirre said--It may seem like a miniscule detail, but it adds strength to the depth of Ennis' fear and paranoia (which he does express at the final meeting).

Any thoughts?
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Offline HLJG

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #40 on: Jan 22, 2008, 06:03 AM »
Oh I was just reading , in another thread, about Jack's anger in the 4 year reunion scene--when thet kiss outside the apartment--and the look on Jack's face. I have watched that scene very intently, and the look on Jack's face is so intense. Initially i thought of it as intense passion--as if he cannot believe he is seeing Ennis again (after 4 years). I think, after returning to Aguirre's, the summer following their sheepherding summer, Jack figured he would not be seeing Ennis ever again.
But perhaps there was anger there as well.

I have to read the ss and screenplay again as there are differences in the way Ennis comes down the stairs, taking them 'two at a time' (in the screenplay) --
to the way Jack 'took the stairs--two and two'. which implies Jack was flying UP the stairs to Ennis.

In the screenplay, Ennis 'looks around" and pulls Jack over to a secluded corner and "shoves him up against the wall". 
Alma sees them, srom the upstairs door, and next, they have pulled away from one another and come up the stairs.
It was in the movie, that Ang Lee added/embelleshed the scene--and it is powerful!
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Offline tpe

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #41 on: Jan 22, 2008, 09:34 AM »
In the motel scene, in 1967, a few were expressed in the short story that were not in the movie that kind of bothered me.

Ennis says to Jack that he has been thinking 'all this time' if he (himeslf) was gay--he says he know's he's not cause they "both got wives and kids"--then he says 'right?' 

 He says to Jack that he "likes doin it with women, but that 'ain't nothin like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hundred times thinkin about you".
He asks Jack if he 'does it with other guys", to which Jack says "Shit, no---You know that".

Ennis goes on to tell Jack that when they parted, 4 years prior, that he pulled over with bad stomach cramps. He tells Jack "Took me a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out a my sights.        Too late then--by a long, long while."

In the screenplay Jack tells Ennis about his return to Aguirre the following summer--looking for work and asking about Ennis. Jack says that "Maybe somebody seen us that summer--and tells him that Aguirre said "You boys found a way to make the time pass up there, didn't you?"
Now, it does say (in the short story) that Jack neglected to tell Ennis that Aguirre said, "You guys wasn't gettin paid to leave the dogs baby-sit the sheep, while you stemmed the rose".
Ennis was so afraid of being found out, and I think in the movie it would have added to his fear if he knew what Aguirre said--It may seem like a miniscule detail, but it adds strength to the depth of Ennis' fear and paranoia (which he does express at the final meeting).

Any thoughts?

Hello HLJG! 

I also think it works that Jack didn't tell Ennis.  Jack was aware of Ennis's deep-seated fears, that to have told him about Aguirre would have possibly endangered Ennis agreeing to meet up with Jack in the future.  I think jack appreciating Ennis's fears made it sort of logical that he hide things from Ennis, in the same way that he tried to hide his infidelities from Ennis later in the relationship.


Offline tpe

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #42 on: Jan 22, 2008, 09:40 AM »
Oh I was just reading , in another thread, about Jack's anger in the 4 year reunion scene--when thet kiss outside the apartment--and the look on Jack's face. I have watched that scene very intently, and the look on Jack's face is so intense. Initially i thought of it as intense passion--as if he cannot believe he is seeing Ennis again (after 4 years). I think, after returning to Aguirre's, the summer following their sheepherding summer, Jack figured he would not be seeing Ennis ever again.
But perhaps there was anger there as well.

I have to read the ss and screenplay again as there are differences in the way Ennis comes down the stairs, taking them 'two at a time' (in the screenplay) --
to the way Jack 'took the stairs--two and two'. which implies Jack was flying UP the stairs to Ennis.

In the screenplay, Ennis 'looks around" and pulls Jack over to a secluded corner and "shoves him up against the wall". 
Alma sees them, srom the upstairs door, and next, they have pulled away from one another and come up the stairs.
It was in the movie, that Ang Lee added/embelleshed the scene--and it is powerful!

I think someone has said elsewhere that in the ss, he/she got the sense that Jack and Ennis were aware that Alma saw them.  What do you think?

The pertinent passage is:


They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily, squeezing the breath out of each other, saying son of a bitch, son of a bitch; then, and as easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard, Jack’s big teeth bringing blood, his hat falling to the floor, stubble rasping, wet saliva welling, and the door opening and Alma looking out for a few seconds at Ennis’s straining shoulders and shutting the door again and still they clinched, pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on each other’s toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, “Little darlin.”

(Proulx, "Brokeback Mountain" 1997)


The interesting word here is "still".  I think one can argue this both ways -- whether they were aware or unaware of Alma seeing them. 

Offline jackster

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #43 on: Jan 22, 2008, 11:40 AM »
I think someone has said elsewhere that in the ss, he/she got the sense that Jack and Ennis were aware that Alma saw them.  What do you think?

The pertinent passage is:

It may have been me said this Thomas, but in any case, what makes me believe this is actually the next passage:

What could he say? "Alma, this is Jack Twist. Jack, my wife, Alma." His chest was heaving. He could smell Jack, the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat, and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain. "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years." As if it were a reason. He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her.

To me the key word is "reason". Reason for what? The reason they're actin' the way she just saw (sucking face), is 'cause they were in love. Ennis knows he's got to come up with something here because they were just found out IMHO, hence the "ain't seen each other . . . ". The movie never lets this cat out of the bag.

BTW I love this olfactory description of Ennis's perception Jack!
we get to drinkin' and talkin' an all

Offline tpe

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #44 on: Jan 22, 2008, 02:35 PM »
It may have been me said this Thomas, but in any case, what makes me believe this is actually the next passage:

What could he say? "Alma, this is Jack Twist. Jack, my wife, Alma." His chest was heaving. He could smell Jack, the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat, and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain. "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years." As if it were a reason. He was glad the light was dim on the landing but did not turn away from her.

To me the key word is "reason". Reason for what? The reason they're actin' the way she just saw (sucking face), is 'cause they were in love. Ennis knows he's got to come up with something here because they were just found out IMHO, hence the "ain't seen each other . . . ". The movie never lets this cat out of the bag.

BTW I love this olfactory description of Ennis's perception Jack!

Thanks jackster!  It probably was you then.  You actually had me convinced, although I didn't exactly recall the justification this morning.  For me, the word "reason" certainly suggests what you say here.

Offline HLJG

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #45 on: Feb 05, 2008, 10:48 PM »
Thanks jackster!  It probably was you then.  You actually had me convinced, although I didn't exactly recall the justification this morning.  For me, the word "reason" certainly suggests what you say here.
Yes--I hadn't picked that up before, but now it falls into place.
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Offline Matt Nasty

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #46 on: Mar 08, 2008, 08:39 AM »
i havn't read the book yet but from what i can gather from views here and on other websites is that the book and the film each have there own power each conveys different things better. im glad i watched the film before i have read the book as i often feel when i read a book first i have my picture of what the characters and when i see a screen adaption if it isnt right i pick up on it but now i know when i read about ennis and jack no matter how it describes them i will deffinately see heath and jake.

Offline jedibarrister

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #47 on: Jul 08, 2009, 09:22 PM »
Quote
Then contrast that to the flashback, where Ennis approaches Jack from behind and embraces him.  The scene is so tender and you can sense that they have no cares in the world, just a deep love and friendship.  Pure innocence and youth.  It ends with Ennis riding off on his horse.  This is then contrasted back to the present time.  We see Jacks face and its obviously aged and pained.  He watches as Ennis drives away this time.  The power of this moment speaks volumes to me.  The love transformed from carefree innocence to painful devotion.

That was such a great scene.  One the one hand you have new love: hopeful, optimistic, full of possibilities.  Then you morph into the new face of love: embittered, pained, and resigned.

I also pointed this out on a thread about "The Two Ennises..." but Ennis was different w/o his admissions of (a) knowing why his guts hurt, (b) "wranging it out" while fantasizing about Jack, (c) admitting that sex with Jack was better than with women, (d) having him sit next to Jack at the camp sites instead of the other side (e) have him put his arms around Jack and start working on buttons, etc.  Ennis was an equal romantic partner in the story but in the movie, he seems a "victim" (for lack of a better word) of his feelings...reticent.

Offline buckskinbronc

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #48 on: Nov 06, 2009, 03:01 PM »
That was such a great scene.  One the one hand you have new love: hopeful, optimistic, full of possibilities.  Then you morph into the new face of love: embittered, pained, and resigned.

I also pointed this out on a thread about "The Two Ennises..." but Ennis was different w/o his admissions of (a) knowing why his guts hurt, (b) "wranging it out" while fantasizing about Jack, (c) admitting that sex with Jack was better than with women, (d) having him sit next to Jack at the camp sites instead of the other side (e) have him put his arms around Jack and start working on buttons, etc.  Ennis was an equal romantic partner in the story but in the movie, he seems a "victim" (for lack of a better word) of his feelings...reticent.

I want to thank all of you who posted to this lovely lyrical thread.  I must now go out and find me a copy of the short story.   :)
Maybe there's a God above
but all I've ever learned from love
is how to shoot someone who out drew ya
and it's not a cry that you hear at night
it's not someone who's seen the light
It's a call and it's a broken Hallelujah

l. cohen

Offline Matt Nasty

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Re: Compare/contrast the book vs. the movie. ***SPOILERS***
« Reply #49 on: Nov 22, 2009, 08:36 PM »
last time i commented here was nearly 2 years ago and before i read the SS :O, thats a long time :P

but even before id read the book i think what i said about them bothing conveying different things better then the other still holds pretty ture for me.