Author Topic: Ennis's shirt  (Read 11049 times)

Offline christie wood

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Ennis's shirt
« on: Feb 01, 2006, 09:40 AM »
Can anyone enlighten me about how and when Jack stole Ennis's shirt.  I am thinking it was after their fight before they leave BBM, but how did Jack manage to do it without Ennis knowing?  I recall Ennis saying "I can't believe I've left my .....shirt up there" or something like that, but if anyone can clear this up that would be great.

For this and many other reasons I need to see this film again!  It's been nearly a week since I saw it and I'm forgetting things - how can this be?! :'(

Please help.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #1 on: Feb 01, 2006, 09:47 AM »
Can anyone enlighten me about how and when Jack stole Ennis's shirt.  I am thinking it was after their fight before they leave BBM, but how did Jack manage to do it without Ennis knowing?  I recall Ennis saying "I can't believe I've left my .....shirt up there" or something like that, but if anyone can clear this up that would be great.

For this and many other reasons I need to see this film again!  It's been nearly a week since I saw it and I'm forgetting things - how can this be?! :'(

Please help.

Hello christie wood.  Both the story and the screenplay do not give any details as to how Jack was able to steal Ennis' shirt.  But the most likely explanation is this: recall that Jack by that time was the camp tender whereas Ennis was the herder.  This means that it was Jack's responsibility to pack and store all supplies and personal effects when the herd was on the move.  Notice also that Jack did the laundry for both of them -- as part of his duties as camp tender.  Thus, he must have had many opportunities to steal the shirt.

Offline christie wood

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #2 on: Feb 01, 2006, 10:06 AM »
Hi tpe (and by the way, just call me christie!)

I think you may be right about how Jack got to steal the shirt.  I seem to recall a scene in the film when Jack was washing clothes down at the river and he looked up, maybe to see if Ennis was looking and so that could be possibly when he had the idea to take it.  Am I right about this scene, or have I just imagined it?
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #3 on: Feb 01, 2006, 10:27 AM »
Hi tpe (and by the way, just call me christie!)

I think you may be right about how Jack got to steal the shirt.  I seem to recall a scene in the film when Jack was washing clothes down at the river and he looked up, maybe to see if Ennis was looking and so that could be possibly when he had the idea to take it.  Am I right about this scene, or have I just imagined it?

Hi christie. :)  I think this scene was before the fight scene, though.  But he was washing Ennis' shirt (according to the screenplay, if I remember correctly.)  I would not dispute that the laundry scene had an erotic element to it also.  And I am sure if is not far-fetched to surmise that the thought of stealing something from Ennis must have been present in Jack's mind all the time (speculation here ;)).
« Last Edit: Feb 01, 2006, 10:47 AM by tpe »

Offline christie wood

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #4 on: Feb 01, 2006, 10:38 AM »
So that wouldn't make sense then because both shirts had blood on them, which I took to be from their last fight before leaving BBM.  But I was also thinking didn't they leave BBM straight after the fight?  So how would Jack have stolen his shirt? 

I think you are right about the thought of stealing from Ennis would have been in Jack's thoughts a lot.  He would need some kind of reminder of that time and place spent with the love of his life.

I've just thought of something......do you remember the scene when it's raining and Ennis is in the tent and he's carving a horse out of wood?  Wasn't that the same horse that ended up on Jack's table in his bedroom when Ennis went to see his folks?  But maybe not, because it didn't seem to have too much of an impression Ennis, at least not to me anyway.  Sorry, I know this has gone off the original thread topic, but when your mind's as full of BBM as mine is, all scenes start to come at you from every angle, at every minute!
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #5 on: Feb 01, 2006, 10:50 AM »
So that wouldn't make sense then because both shirts had blood on them, which I took to be from their last fight before leaving BBM.  But I was also thinking didn't they leave BBM straight after the fight?  So how would Jack have stolen his shirt? 

I think you are right about the thought of stealing from Ennis would have been in Jack's thoughts a lot.  He would need some kind of reminder of that time and place spent with the love of his life.

I've just thought of something......do you remember the scene when it's raining and Ennis is in the tent and he's carving a horse out of wood?  Wasn't that the same horse that ended up on Jack's table in his bedroom when Ennis went to see his folks?  But maybe not, because it didn't seem to have too much of an impression Ennis, at least not to me anyway.  Sorry, I know this has gone off the original thread topic, but when your mind's as full of BBM as mine is, all scenes start to come at you from every angle, at every minute!

Hello christie.  If you recall, Ennis and Jack were wearing different shirts when they came down.  Presumably, they took off the bloodied shirts and stored them in their respective sacks.  Since Jack was in charge of baggage and supplies, he had access to Ennis' sack and must have taken it sometime during their rest stops down the mountain.

The wooden horse or toy horse has been discussed in the 'Stray Nail Polish and Other Details' thread.  Go check it out.

Offline scruffy

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #6 on: Feb 01, 2006, 11:04 AM »
The fight takes place just before they have to gather the sheep and head down the mountain.  Since the tent has been taken down there is a good reason to believe they do not stay another night.  But notice when they come back down the mountain Ennis is wearing another (brown) shirt.  Ennis obviously changed before going down the mountain.  It was probably then when Jack kept the blood stained shirt.  I don't like to think of it as stealing.

This is one of those things that I find interesting.  We never know what is said or what happens in between many scenes but we are left with a feeling that something happened or something was said or something was resolved -- or even unresolved.  This film is like a complex puzzle.  There are hints everywhere -- some hints are visual and some are spoken in the dialogue.  It's a matter of finding the clues and piecing them together.

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Offline cybernaut

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #7 on: Feb 02, 2006, 09:52 AM »
I don't have the screenplay book with me but here's an intelligent guess... well in a perverted way.

I noticed that Jack was stark naked washing Ennis' checkered shirt by the river. Now why would he wash somebody else's clothes stark naked other than his own?  ??? Initially I thought he was washing his shirt but somebody brought it up, I was like hey!! :D

The movie caught me again! Worse than Desperate Housewives!!
At least we wait till the following week to find the answers but we are only left with 135 minutes of the movie to explore!  :-\

My guess is that Jack was probably trying out Ennis' shirt while he was off tending the sheeps. And the way he was carefully washing the shirt, I thought he might as well steal it as a souvenir like you "steal" pens from a hotel room.  ;D Besides the essence of a smell can trigger a lot of emotions in a person. Notice how Annie Proulx wrote about "musky smell of Jack... reminds Ennis of the rushing colors of the mountain" and Ennis inhaling the shirt at the end, reminding him of Jack... And the way the shirt was arranged.

So in all, shirt fetish. I am willing to forgive them because they have no Kodak moments... well for us, not them however. :'(
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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #8 on: Feb 02, 2006, 10:30 PM »
ok here is the deal...after the play fight...they changed into their only other shirt...because when they come down the mountain they had different shirts than when they were play fighting...so i would think sometime inbetween jack took ennis's shirt..did you notice how jakc mumbled something about it when ennis was saying he couldn't believe that he lost his shirt while they were by the pick up.......trust me when you want a memonto of your loved one...gosh you find a way...i did once...:)

Offline Jack_ME

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #9 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:01 AM »
Ennis comes to camp, Jack has already packed up, and is taking down the empty tent. Ennis goes off and first sits on a log to sulk over the sudden departure and ostensibly being short changed the month's pay....Jack continues to pack up. At some point Ennis wanders off and when Jack is ALL packed he goes up and says...Hey cowboy time to leave......then the lasso and the wrestling, then the fight and the bloodied nose and shirts......Ennis was a mess of blood and had a bleeding nose....naturally he went to the river, stripped off his shirt, probably threw it down on the way, and washed himself, stopped his nose bleed, and then got his clean shirt and put it on........somehow Jack sees it and spirits it away with his own into his belongings......Ennis never notices....UNTIL he is down the mountain and then he recalls when he threw it on the ground or the river bank.....and makes his comment.....Jack says......HHMMmmm.

I didn't find it hard to envision the above scenario i just typed. The facts are there and I think the suggestions I make seem logical. Of course....I didn't think of it at all the first viewing, until the surprise of seeing them when Ennis discovers them. It's like in a good mystery, you are supposed to be given all the clues but still not realize what is a clue what isn't until the end, then you go back and say....oh yeah!

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Offline cybernaut

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #10 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:58 AM »
Question time!

Now Ennis was up there mulling about something... Was it one month's pay or JACK?  ;)
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #11 on: Feb 03, 2006, 08:26 AM »
Question time!

Now Ennis was up there mulling about something... Was it one month's pay or JACK?  ;)

It was clearly JACK, IMO.  He hated everything ending soo soon...

Offline cybernaut

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #12 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:05 PM »
tpe: I think so too. The rational will tie in nicely with the backalley scene. Besides he was stuttering when he said about "not right to con us a whole...whole month's pay... It aint...aint right". I know Ennis isn't articulate but I felt there was a meaning to that stuttering. He must have felt frustrated that the party has to end that soon. Maybe that love-sick pain was already starting to kick in...

But I love that "Time to go, cowboy"... Cheeky Jack!  :D
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #13 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:10 PM »
tpe: I think so too. The rational will tie in nicely with the backalley scene. Besides he was stuttering when he said about "not right to con us a whole...whole month's pay... It aint...aint right". I know Ennis isn't articulate but I felt there was a meaning to that stuttering. He must have felt frustrated that the party has to end that soon. Maybe that love-sick pain was already starting to kick in...

But I love that "Time to go, cowboy"... Cheeky Jack!  :D

Hi cybernaut.  Yes, I have to admit that I just love Gyllenhaal's interpretation of Jack Twist.  "Time to go, cowboy" was beautifully done, especially if you remember that Gyllenhaal gives him that trademark melting look before going up to where Ledger/Ennis was seated.

Offline cybernaut

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #14 on: Feb 03, 2006, 12:33 PM »
tpe: Yes yes!  :) I had a relook at that scene and it was so Cheeky Jack.  :D

I loved that part when he roped one of Ennis' legs. Unfortunately the camera didn't capture his expressions when Ennis fell but as Ennis pulled him... said, "Thought you are in the rodeo cowboy.." overpowered Jack and wrestled with him..

That look on Jack's wide-grinning face and turned into "uh oh..." was priceless.  :)
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Offline Rønnaug

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #15 on: Feb 05, 2006, 02:50 PM »
They both have different shirts on the way down the mountain, my guess is they both stripped of shirts and went to wash up. Then Jack came back to the shirts first and took both of them. Ennis toowrapped up in trying to hide his feelings to notice he forgot to look for his shirt.
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Offline christie wood

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #16 on: Feb 06, 2006, 03:53 AM »
I also love the way Jack is so cheery when he goes to get Ennis from where he's sulking up on the hill.But I think the reason is this:  Jack is so happy with Ennis, I think he thinks there's no way Ennis will be able to live without him now and so expects them to see each other, if not straight away, but soon.  So, even though Jack's obviously sad to leave their beloved mountain, he thinks it's not the end of him and Ennis.  Ennis, obviously thinks otherwise.  He connects Jack with Brokeback Mountain, not real life, and so now he's leaving the mountain, he'll be leaving Jack.  That's just the way it is in Ennis's mind.  That's why when he first sees Jack taking the tent down he's so mad, not about the money, but because he's so happy and contented with Jack, that he's going to have to leave that behind, and go back to reality.  It's heartbreaking, because he takes it out on Jack in a number of ways. Firstly, rejecting Jack's offer of money, then storming off and not speaking to him, and then turning the play wrestling into a fight....that really does show how Ennis works. He's so upset about leaving Jack, but he's constantly fighting these inner demons about how feels that he then turns into an all out fight.  He almost gives in to  Jack after Jack hits him and Jack goes to comfort him, but there's no way Ennis is going to let Jack hit him and not hit him back...he has to show he's a man.

So much to see and analyze in that scene.....it leads on to Ennis breaking down in the alley, and it's all connected.  Ennis loves Jack, but just can't say it.
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Offline cybernaut

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #17 on: Feb 06, 2006, 11:27 PM »
Jack is so happy with Ennis, I think he thinks there's no way Ennis will be able to live without him now and so expects them to see each other,

Do you think Jack feels there is a future with Ennis?

I admire Jack's patience and determination, especially when Ennis told him he was divorced.
Jack even had to ask the folks where Ennis is. Enduring love. :'(
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Offline CherryCake

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #18 on: Feb 07, 2006, 12:12 AM »
I also love the way Jack is so cheery when he goes to get Ennis from where he's sulking up on the hill.But I think the reason is this:  Jack is so happy with Ennis, I think he thinks there's no way Ennis will be able to live without him now and so expects them to see each other, if not straight away, but soon.  So, even though Jack's obviously sad to leave their beloved mountain, he thinks it's not the end of him and Ennis.  Ennis, obviously thinks otherwise.  He connects Jack with Brokeback Mountain, not real life, and so now he's leaving the mountain, he'll be leaving Jack.  That's just the way it is in Ennis's mind.  That's why when he first sees Jack taking the tent down he's so mad, not about the money, but because he's so happy and contented with Jack, that he's going to have to leave that behind, and go back to reality.  It's heartbreaking, because he takes it out on Jack in a number of ways. Firstly, rejecting Jack's offer of money, then storming off and not speaking to him, and then turning the play wrestling into a fight....that really does show how Ennis works. He's so upset about leaving Jack, but he's constantly fighting these inner demons about how feels that he then turns into an all out fight.  He almost gives in to  Jack after Jack hits him and Jack goes to comfort him, but there's no way Ennis is going to let Jack hit him and not hit him back...he has to show he's a man.

So much to see and analyze in that scene.....it leads on to Ennis breaking down in the alley, and it's all connected.  Ennis loves Jack, but just can't say it.

AWWw Christie, what a beautiful analysis. You are so right about Ennis. He reacts the only way he knows how.
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Offline brian2006

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Re: Ennis's shirt
« Reply #19 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:57 AM »
i think Jack is alwayz a romantic guy!!

all the words he said n all the moves shows how he cares n loves Ennis...

i wonder is Jake Gyllenhaal a romantic guy in real life? ???