Author Topic: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?  (Read 29420 times)

Offline hephaestion

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Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« on: Feb 09, 2006, 12:20 PM »
This is my first post here, but I have spent a few hours reading many posts.... a lot of heart and soul in here, and great posts on the human story.   But so far, the discussions referring to BBM all seem to springboard from the assumption or catchphrase "the gay cowboy movie."

I don't mean to detract from the depth of anyone's posts, but I don't feel it's trivial at all that we're referring to "gay" experiences rather than bisexual experiences.  Ultimately, BBM is about love, of course, but it also is about sex and commitment.  It's as if as soon as one has had a homosexual experience, that they're instantly and forevermore "gay".  To much of the domesticated "hetero" population, it is the fear of this stigma which I believe is the guiding principle for all other homophobic thoughts, urges, and actions/reactions.

I believe the vast majority of humans are on a sliding scale from absolutley and completely "hetero" on one side, and absolutely and completely "homo" on the other.  A large minority are strictly heterosexual, a very small percentage strictly homosexual, and the vast majority of us somewhere in between.  That is, most of us are bisexual in nature.  Separating thoughts/whims from actual experience, and discounting the fantasizing during sex or masturbating, I would hold that most of us are hetero in action, but significantly bisexual in nature.  We are at once both sexual beings encased in a very complicated soup of genetic material, and also social animals conditioned to interact with a high density of a wide variety of similar sexual/social humans... (geez that sounds so cold and logical, but it really isn't :-\)

In the wild, male animals sometimes mount other male animals.  Dogs are a good domestic example of this natural occurrence.  In 9th grade biology, over a few generations of fruitfly experiments, I saw that there were always some males that pursued other males and did the "courtship dance" with other males...

Throughout recorded human history, male/male sexual encounters have always happened... Sodom and Gomorrah, Alexander and Hephaestion, the Greek and Roman civilizations, the Egyptians, the list goes on.  Aside from the religious and societal taboos that have been placed on these minority acts, and larger than those same religions and societies that have come and gone, human sexual encounters are MUCH larger than that and more a part of who we are than a particular fad/view/rule/paradigm/era's current outlook or taboo on any subject, science included.  However oppressed or liberated in any historical moment, human sexuality is greater than the confines of that one lifetime --- it is our very being.

Now I've gone too deep on the analytical side.  ???

Let me bring it back to everyday talk. ;)

A quick analogy, then the final point.  Rock music is now several decades old.  Pick any random artist, and we will attempt to categorize the music -- classic country, motown, emocore, bubble gum pop, intelligent dance music, progressive house, be-bop, Christian rock, deathmetal..... the list goes on.  Rather than a futile attempt at saying X artist is in Y category, it would be more accurate to say that they have "leanings" or "tendencies" or "elements of" country or hard rock or gospel, etc.  Of course, most people don't talk like this, but only because we've been conditioned this way, and it is how "everyone else" talks.  Easier to categorize, to lump the world into black and white, gay or hetero.

My point is, with the Internet, this new revolution of sharing human experience from a grassroots level rather than a handed down, scriptural or societal or other other authoratative source or myth, with the Internet and these forums, we are re-educating and re-evaluating ourselves from a very honest and personal level.

If we are pioneers in enlightenment then, shouldn't we tread boldly but carefully with each step we take?  Should we not say "bisexual" more often?  Is this not closer to the truth?

Who would've thought a couple decades ago that a good number of us actually have "their own Brokeback Mountain"?  In those same decades enormous human rights strides have been made. 

There is a reason for ethics and morality, but at the same time, there is the just progress towards integrity and enlightenment.

All I'm saying is, if these BBM forums are a starting point for discussions which can change the outlook of mainstream for the better, shouldn't we start by properly framing the starting-point of our discussions using more accurate terms like "bisexual" rather than "gay"?

Actually, we're kinda doing this already with the testimonies in the "your own private BBM" posts where the stories are told, without the use of the words bisexual or gay, but just the true hearltfelt love stories :)

Pushing semantics and details aside, the epic truth still stands:  Love is a force of nature.

Offline septuaginarian

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #1 on: Feb 09, 2006, 10:19 PM »
A man much wiser than I am observed that two heterosexual men can have sex together and successfully reach an orgasm. If these heterosexual men are married or have had sex with  women, technically, we call them “bisexual.” However, the term is not very helpful since such men have made love mechanically, without real passion for one another. So these men are really not “gay” in the same sense that laying one brick does not make you a mason.

On the other hand, gay men make love with each other “passionately,” not mechanically, and that is why they are gay: the presence or absence of passion is what makes the difference, not their anatomy. Passion between a man and a woman in love is what makes them heterosexuals, not anatomy.

In the motel scene Ennis and Jack are clueless about the above distinctions. In Brokeback Mountain Ennis says:

You know, I was sittin up here all that time tryin to figure out if I was -- ? I know I ain't. I mean here we both got wives and kids, right? I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this. I never had no thoughts a doin it with another guy except I sure wrang it out a hunderd times thinkin about you.

…ain’t nothing like this” gives Ennis’ orientation away.

Jack is similarly oblivious to the truth about himself:

Christ, it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddamn good.

Hephaestion, I think you are right that there is a wide spectrum in mankind, both of the degree and to whom, passion is felt, but hetero-, bi, and gay do not portray the rainbow of this spectrum in anything like its deepness or complexity.

septuaginarian

Offline karind1

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #2 on: Feb 09, 2006, 11:30 PM »
i vote human beings as we all are - gay, bi, sraight, anything.

Offline hephaestion

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #3 on: Feb 09, 2006, 11:37 PM »

Hephaestion, I think you are right that there is a wide spectrum in mankind, both of the degree and to whom, passion is felt, but hetero-, bi, and gay do not portray the rainbow of this spectrum in anything like its deepness or complexity.



Agreed, the sexual passion and love (or the lack of) one can have for others can go deeper than simply saying you have a "hetero" relationship.  In my eyes, Jack and Ennis are not "gay" either, because "gay" is a straightjacket on what they are going thru.  Bisexual is a more accurate term because they have sexual and passionate relations with each other and their wives.  But more importantly, "bisexual" carries less of a stigma than "gay", if only because it is more common (although not fully acknowledged yet).

Granted, back in the '60's in the Midwest, I don't imagine folks were any more tolerant of bisexuals than they were of gays.  Today, there's a shade more tolerance and understanding of homosexuality.  In the future as I hope to see it, the civilized will simply acknowledge the normality of our bisexual nature, and the stigma will be largely diffused.  Gays will refer to strictly homosexuals. It won't be a judgment, but a statement of fact.

Like our own personal Brokeback Mountains, many will have a same-sex affair.  Hopefully it will compassionately be taken as a special love that may have passed, something to be treasured, and not be ashamed about anymore.

Ideally, the labels will vanish, and we will all be called "lovers".  We will openly admire a gorgeous hunk with a hypnotizing smile, and the sexy fox with silky skin.  But most importantly, without fear, we will look into the eyes of anyone and see the beauty inside.  We will connect, and truly value when precious love is found.
« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2006, 11:40 PM by hephaestion »

Offline dr bill

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #4 on: Feb 10, 2006, 12:37 AM »
Vote for human.  Human is my first definition, any thing else is just another definition of who I am.  Man, son, brother, uncle, and so on.  Words to attain understanding for the places one places themselves in and for other people to categorize me according.  Unfortunately some people's categorization might be based solely on their life experience and not mine.  Thus, one person might be fitting me somewhere I do not fit by my own definitions.  If that makes any sense...
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Offline cowgirl19

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #5 on: Feb 10, 2006, 12:43 AM »
Love is a force of human nature!
"Come on Ennis, you just shot my plane out a the sky!-give me somethin a go on.  This ain't no little thing that's happenin here"---Jack Twist

Ennis, weather-eyed, looked west for the heated cumulus that might come up on such a day but the boneless blue was so deep, said Jack, that he might drown looking up.

His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them.

Offline terryn

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #6 on: Feb 13, 2006, 09:54 PM »
Just human. Can't help who you fall in love with.

Offline chameau

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #7 on: Feb 13, 2006, 10:28 PM »
Just human. Can't help who you fall in love with.

Ennis just human, yes.

Jack?  He's attracted to men.

Or else, love at first sight when he sees Ennis for the first time?

Those glances!  :-*
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline terryn

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #8 on: Feb 14, 2006, 12:08 AM »
True. Who couldn't fall madly in love with Jack. Those dreamy killer eyes. :)
« Last Edit: Feb 14, 2006, 12:12 AM by terryn »

Offline jason

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #9 on: Feb 14, 2006, 12:49 AM »
On the other hand, gay men make love with each other “passionately,” not mechanically, and that is why they are gay: the presence or absence of passion is what makes the difference, not their anatomy. Passion between a man and a woman in love is what makes them heterosexuals, not anatomy.

Hephaestion, I think you are right that there is a wide spectrum in mankind, both of the degree and to whom, passion is felt, but hetero-, bi, and gay do not portray the rainbow of this spectrum in anything like its deepness or complexity.

Hephaestion, Septuaginarian,  I wish all our participants wd read yr wise words. 

Hephaestion importantly resurrects the almost forgotten perspective that most of us lie somewhere between the solely gay and solely hetero (what a social revolution it would be if society/officialdom recognized this fact). 

And having established this simple ground rule, we must expect depth and complexity and variability of human experience and potential, as Sept encourages us to do.  (We wait with bated breath to witness how Ennis and Jack will proceed, since we suspect this is uncharted territory for both of them, so that anything might happen.  This is one of the sources of tension/excitement in the film.  And why Ang Lee decided to do this story--it's possibilities and obstacles are so great.)

The ideas are really not so complicated. Why is society so hidebound?

IMHO, BBM starts the process of exploring these perspectives, and that's why it's so important as a movie, *and* one reason why it hits us so hard.  Your quotes are spot on SeptThanks for your carefully crafted, but passionate posts.  What a pleasure! :)

So now I should sign myself Bi
Let be, let be

Offline dr bill

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 14, 2006, 12:59 AM »
Jason,

I appreciate what you said.  Agreed.
Billy the Kid

JerBear418720

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #11 on: Feb 14, 2006, 02:05 AM »
I believe as others have said here that most of us ARE NOT exclusively gay or hetero.

I might be shot for bringing up the Kinsey scale...

0- Exclusively heterosexual, not homosexual
1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6- Exclusively homosexual

...but I think that it still has validity.

a TRUE bisexual is a 3.

Based upon my personal history, I think I am a 4.  My first LTR was a 10 year marriage to a female with whom I shared what I still believe to have been an honest, passionate relationship.  My longest male LTR (8 years) was with a man that was also a 4.  I think that we are drawn to people who share similar values and experiences in matters of sex.  I might add that I choose to self-identify as gay a this point in my life, because people seem to NEED labels, and if you start getting into these complexities with someone new in your life, either their eyes will roll back in their heads, or they will turn tail and run!

That brings us to Ennis and Jack.  I think Ennis was a 4 or 4.5, and Jack was about a 5.5.  Did this disparity add to the strain between them?  It's possible. - remember the "for boys like you in Mexico" scene.  My last male LTR was with a 6, and he truly DID NOT like the fact that my orientation had a degree of ambiguity.

Thoughts on this?   

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #12 on: Feb 14, 2006, 11:00 AM »
I think "human" is an appropriate term. Does it truly matter so much that we feel the need to label ourselves and slot us into a pigeonhole only to picked out by the hand of fate, rather than our own needs, wants, and desires. Love is love, shouldn't matter who with.
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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #13 on: Feb 15, 2006, 05:01 PM »
I have a question for you.

If the Kinsey scale is true, as I have some doubts, then tell me

I have met lots of 0s and lots of 6s. But my God, I have met maybe very very few people that fall in the other categories, and I have met alot of people. So, what is, in your opinion or based on research, the prevalence of those 'in-betweens' compared to the 0s and 6s. I think you wish they exist but in fact very very few do. That the large majority of us fall somewhere between 0 and 6, I have yet to see.

Offline dr bill

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #14 on: Feb 15, 2006, 05:37 PM »
Sharve,

I think it is very difficult to categorize a person's sexuality according to the Kinsey scale.  It was a nice idea but just not useful when "plugging" a person into such a limited scale.  I prefer to use a continuum.  Hetero.............Bi............Homosexual

I think sexual preference (or orientation) is not cemented in stone.  What I mean by this is: If a hetero man is insecure he is going to make a big deal about homosexuality (makes me think he doeth protest too much) as well as a gay man who makes similar statements about being 100% gay.  The more secure one is about their sexuality, the less discussion about it there will be.  We are all 100% sure the sun will rise from the east, but you don't see anyone going out and making a big deal about the sun rising once again.  The sunrise just is.  Sexuality at any place along the continuum just is.  Categories are used by humans to attempt to create some sense of order.   
Billy the Kid

JerBear418720

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #15 on: Feb 15, 2006, 07:08 PM »
Sharve,

I think it is very difficult to categorize a person's sexuality according to the Kinsey scale.  It was a nice idea but just not useful when "plugging" a person into such a limited scale.  I prefer to use a continuum.  Hetero.............Bi............Homosexual

I think sexual preference (or orientation) is not cemented in stone.  What I mean by this is: If a hetero man is insecure he is going to make a big deal about homosexuality (makes me think he doeth protest too much) as well as a gay man who makes similar statements about being 100% gay.  The more secure one is about their sexuality, the less discussion about it there will be.  We are all 100% sure the sun will rise from the east, but you don't see anyone going out and making a big deal about the sun rising once again.  The sunrise just is.  Sexuality at any place along the continuum just is.  Categories are used by humans to attempt to create some sense of order.   

See, I DID say that somebody would shoot me!

DrBill, if I get what you're saying, you would deliberately make the Kinsey model more blurry and fluid.  That's really interesting and probably more reflective of 2006 reality.  After all, Kinsey released this information in 1948, and the findings were based upon interviews.  Self-perceptions were likely very different back then, because the world was very different.  Today, we are more likely to ask this: What could be more subjective and non-determinant than a discussion of sexual attraction?

It would, though, be nice to get out a bag of cement and seal yourself into a point of orientation so that you can stop reassessing yourself - LOL!

JB  ;)

P.S.  I guess I will now have to position myself somewhere on the second set of ................s and live with the reality that the whole matter is about as stable as the San Andreas Fault!

Offline dr bill

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #16 on: Feb 15, 2006, 07:20 PM »
yes JerBear you are correct.  Sexuality is more fluid than what is allowed with the labels of today.  I do believe a person's sexuality could be interpreted incorrectly by the use of labels.  One need not reassure themselves about their sexuality but rather just BE themselves according to their interpretation of their own experiences of life.  One thing to consider: We do not know if Ennis had any previous sexual experiences with a man.  His attraction to Jack began during that summer and as time passed the electricity between the two became unbearable for them. The time these two men shared together developed into a relationship strained by societal edicts.  Reality is what you perceive it to be.  Your reality is not what others think but what you see to be real for  you.  We must live according to our beliefs.  Love yourself, enjoy yourself and others will too.  Stability is a perception based upon your previous experiences.  Freud said that we are all born latently bisexual.  I think he spoke the truth.
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Offline kcristob

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #17 on: Feb 15, 2006, 07:31 PM »
I think that society makes such a big deal of sexuality, and we are really products of our society.  I am certain that if I were to somehow "log" my thoughts as I meet people, or interact with them I would find that I spend a fair amount of time deciding whether I think they are gay or not.  Sex really does rise to the surface (pun kind of intended) of great importance in our lives and it is a big deal when we are interacting with others.  It's great to say we are all human and that's all that matters, but I think the truth is we are all sexual humans.  If we aren't jumping into bed, we are either thinking about it, remembering it, picturing others doing it, or some such thoughts.

If it really was safe to be with anyone in our society, I think it would be a very very different world (and better.)  How different would suprise us all I think.  Because I do think we are all fairly bisexual. 

Oh, and about Jack and Ennis.  My opinion is that Ennis is pretty much hetero and Jack is probably a 3 or 4 - bi.




Offline boots

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #18 on: Feb 15, 2006, 08:29 PM »
Human, with certain orientations, perhaps.  They both say they aren't queer but they have sex and are in love with each other...so? 

I've never introduced myself or thought of myself first as gay.  It's what society wants me to be, maybe:  one thing, clearly defined, exact, safely outlined with no surprises.  But, guess what?  None of us are like that, not always.  Define me as gay but I know that this is but one side of a multi-faceted gem...and this gem is strung together with all the other gems in one big chain, whether it is acknowledged or not.

Straight, gay, bi, transgender.  One day we won't care about such things.  Sure, definitions will continue, be applicable.  But once we see the universality of love and human connection - I mean really touch the deep core of this - these words and definitions will be mere guideposts along the road.  No real stopping place.

``[Jack and Ennis] taught all of us who made `Brokeback Mountain' so much about not just the gay men and women whose love is denied by society, but just as important, the greatness of love itself.'' -- Ang Lee

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #19 on: Feb 15, 2006, 08:31 PM »
On the Kinsey Scale, the Cowboy is a 6+ (ok I have my moments, when I even scare myself there). Women are great as friends and yes I have a deep respect and abiding love for some of them, but only in that respect. Sorry you Cowgirls, but the thought of climbing into bed with a woman or making out with one....sends shivers down my spine. Or as I usually put it....ewwwwwwwwwww  ;D
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #20 on: Feb 15, 2006, 08:55 PM »
Ok that Kinsey Scale really confuses me!



    0- Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual
    1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
    2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
    3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual
    4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
    5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
    6- Exclusively homosexual

What about heterosexual only incidentally homosexual (but with more homosexual thoughts than actions)...who lusts after Heath Orlando Colin etc, and sometimes about Monica or Angelina?

I'm not a 2 but I'm not a 3 either...I have many friends who would be cast as 3...and wouldn't 2 and 5 as well as 1 and 4 the same ones?
How can one person be categorised according to a silly graph anyway!!!
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #21 on: Feb 15, 2006, 09:12 PM »
Froggy, you're of course right. There's a reason you are the Queen around here. Btw...had you crossed my path in a different time and place, I might say you could have turned me to the other side!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #22 on: Feb 15, 2006, 09:18 PM »
Froggy, you're of course right. There's a reason you are the Queen around here. Btw...had you crossed my path in a different time and place, I might say you could have turned me to the other side!

I was told by a monk that I had had many great lives, some sad some good....so who knows? Then again, nothing guaranties me that I was a woman then!!! ;D
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #23 on: Feb 15, 2006, 09:23 PM »
I'm a true believer in past lives, there's things in my life I can't explain, and certain people I am innately drawn to for no reason. Those I know from a time long ago. I had someone I trusted very much give me some background information on my 'past'. I am convinced that I am here to make some of those re-connections. The universality of BBM transcends past, present, and future.

Moua to You Dear Froggy! Man or Woman, You are a HOTTIE!
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #24 on: Feb 15, 2006, 09:25 PM »
I'm a true believer in past lives, there's things in my life I can't explain, and certain people I am innately drawn to for no reason. Those I know from a time long ago. I had someone I trusted very much give me some background information on my 'past'. I am convinced that I am here to make some of those re-connections. The universality of BBM transcends past, present, and future.

Moua to You Dear Froggy! Man or Woman, You are a HOTTIE!

<OT> But who cares?

MOUA to you too...you are a keeper...and I like your new title mister latest mod squad member!!!
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


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Offline BBBOY

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #25 on: Feb 15, 2006, 10:11 PM »
I have always believed that the majority of us are bisexual. As a young man I certainly could have interacted with a woman. Gee, could have interacted with  a mail box. I met a young Irish lass one summer while working on Cape Cod. The moment we met was magic, and we spent the summer together conviently (for me) deciding that we would keep things plutonic, as she was going back to Ireland. Inseperable and loving each minute we had together we lived a gentle summer together. At a late night beach party, everyone necking and more, she tried to seduce me. I panicked, knowing I could do it but knowing it wasn't fair to her or me. 2 days later we left together for NYC. I had arranged for her to stay with one of my female friends from college and I was going to stay with a buddy. On the train from Boston I summoned up the courage to suggest that we bag the living arrangement plans and get a room together in NYC. She wisely nixed that idea. Nice time in the city and a sad goodby.
     2 years later, I'm back on Cape Cod and she is back in Boston spending the summer with her brother and his new wife. She takes the bus down to see me. It's like we have never been apart. The same chemistry, same feeling, but by now I am out. I know what I am. While I go to work she goes out and finds a job and a place to stay and floors me with the news when I meet her after work. I know I can do this, know I can love her, but I also know who and what I am. I am not gonna do this to her, she deserves better. So, I sit her down and tell her the truth. I love her, there will never be anyone else but her but I will not let her waste her life on me. I am that 10% whatever  % it is gay. At 23 I could have made love to her, but at 35, 45, 55? I couldn't do that to her.
     I think of her often these days. I hope she has had a good life. I know she married well and hope she loved the guy she married. I'd love to see her, just to see her, know she's alright. We had something that summer, pure and clean and real. Damn, guess I ought to post this in the "Brokeback Mountain Experience " section.
     So in answer to the topic, I guess we are all human, whatever our orientation.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Ennis, riding against the wind back to the sheep in the treacherous, drunken darken light, thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #26 on: Feb 15, 2006, 11:03 PM »
So in answer to the topic, I guess we are all human, whatever our orientation.

Thankx for posting..
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline garymcd

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #27 on: Feb 16, 2006, 01:12 AM »
sex is sex
our animal human instinct
"this is a goddamned bitch of an unsatisfactory situation"

Offline frenchcda

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #28 on: Feb 16, 2006, 06:22 AM »
Love is Love, when it occurs it matters not which gender one is, Nature takes it course.
Human beings forget the labelling
       what is a belief if not a lack of knowing


              My wounds are deeper than your desires

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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: Jack and Ennis -- bisexual or gay or human?
« Reply #29 on: Feb 16, 2006, 07:46 AM »
Love is Love, when it occurs it matters not which gender one is, Nature takes it course.
Human beings forget the labelling


Frenchcda - Thanks. Labels only work to the extent of boxing people into the rigors that society dictates so everyone knows their place, gosh I hate that line of thinking, but in American society that is very true. Everyone has a label nowadays. I choose to opt out of that process. I hope more people will as time passes. To label someone as gay, bi, or straight, and work to keep them there at all costs is somewhat un-nerving. In the general sense of the word, I'm gay, but if we break that down, what exactly does that mean? Whom I choose as a partner, the way I dress, what music I listen too, etc. I'd like to think I'm open enough to consider all shades of gray, just not the "white and black". Sometimes I hear things out of other gay men and woman and I think to myself...you've got a long way to go. Is it so hard to appreciate everyone? I've stated before I think we should all be supportive of one another, especially those who are affected by laws, rules, and regulations imposed by society on anyone who is gay, bi, transgendered, etc. In short as humans and with such a very limited time on this planet, we should spend more time learning and loving and less labeling and fighting.
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!