Author Topic: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?  (Read 30169 times)

Offline brokebackmountain

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Knowing how much we know from the short story or the movie, what are the reasons for Jake to fall in love with Ennis? Did Jake see something in Ennis that we don't see?

Is it because they were alone and then bonded during the summer? Or is it from Jake's sympathy when Ennis told Jake his family? What do you guys think?
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Offline borger1582

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 26, 2005, 09:46 PM »
I hate to say this, but from what we know about Jack later (e.g., all the other trysts, especially during their four year separation), Ennis might just have been what was handy at the time.  At least, at the very beginning.  By the time they went down the mountain, we can assume the relationship became more important to Jack because he stole the shirt.  Everything else we have seems to be about Ennis' feelings.  From the night they enjoyed the conversation and companionship (when, riding back to the sheep Ennis felt that he "could paw the white out of the moon") to his feeling that leaving the mountain that summer was a "headlong, but irreversible, fall" to his obvious displeasure in the movie with going down the mountain (with the convenient excuse of not getting another month's pay to explain his melancholy), we seem to see Ennis falling for Jack, but other than the physical expressions, nothing from Jack until he looks Ennis up 4 years later. 

Of course, I'm also leaving out another bit of information we only get near the end of the story and the movie, which is the "hug from behind" that becomes so important in Jack's memory.  Recall from the story that even Jack's suspicion that Ennis didn't want to see or feel that it was Jack he held didn't spoil that feeling of warmth and caring that Jack experienced.  That alone, perhaps, changed it all for Jack and made him determine to do something like steal Ennis' shirt (if he couldn't have Ennis).  I got the impression from the film (but not the story) that Jack was trying to get Ennis to commit to Brokeback Mountain the next year for work, and in the IMDB posts, one lucky someone who read the script says it describes Jack's attempts at their parting as "desprate."

Offline brokebackmountain

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 26, 2005, 10:08 PM »
I hate to say this, but from what we know about Jack later (e.g., all the other trysts, especially during their four year separation), Ennis might just have been what was handy at the time.  At least, at the very beginning.  By the time they went down the mountain, we can assume the relationship became more important to Jack because he stole the shirt. 

borger1582, nice explanation. I got this impression as well. Jack seemed to be very calm and knew what he was doing. Like you said, Ennis was just the one handy at that time. I too hate to think it this way. Perhaps the first tent scene was purely physical. After that, Ennis just fell for Jack and their time together just reinforce their bond until they went down the mountain.

IMO, Ennis's personality is like a magnet. No wonder why Jack said "I wish I knew how to quit you."
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Offline borger1582

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 27, 2005, 02:56 AM »
I also believe at this time that Ennis would not have consummated the relationship with Jack if he hadn't been making an emotional connection already.  Several good threads on the IMDB board discussed the "high-time supper" conversation and why we missed it being in the film - Ennis had never had such a good time - and we know from the story and from interviews with Proulx that his life was HARD - probably not a lot of social connection at all (of course, he was already engaged to Alma, but if he had never had such a good time . . . ).  So what am I trying to say?  I think "seredipity" says it best - everything came together just right, that summer on Brokeback Mountain.

This thought answers another question we were posing over at IMDB.  Why did Jack wait 4 years to see Ennis again?  Why did Ennis let Jack out of his sight at the end of the summer?  Neither really knew what they had until it was gone (stolen shirts and desperation notwithstanding).  "Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over" to quote Jack.

Offline brokebackmountain

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 27, 2005, 03:18 AM »
I also believe at this time that Ennis would not have consummated the relationship with Jack if he hadn't been making an emotional connection already.  Several good threads on the IMDB board discussed the "high-time supper" conversation and why we missed it being in the film - Ennis had never had such a good time - and we know from the story and from interviews with Proulx that his life was HARD - probably not a lot of social connection at all (of course, he was already engaged to Alma, but if he had never had such a good time . . . ).  So what am I trying to say?  I think "seredipity" says it best - everything came together just right, that summer on Brokeback Mountain.

Another good post from you, borger1582. Your insights made it clear why Ennis would fall for Jack. After seeing the movie three times, I am kinda convinced that how Ennis and Jack bonded in the film was rushy and I wish I could have seen both happy on Brokeback Mountain a little big longer or somehow close to the description of the short story. If I could time it at all, I think their happy time was probably only one third of the movie.

I would think that in the 60s, guys took their relationship more seriously given the taboo nature of the gay relationship. Once they bonded, it just lasted. Is it safe to say that Jack is the only one who sees the true skin of Ennis and understands him completely? Probably not - Jack tried 20 years to understand Ennis and still didn't quite get it.

Quote
This thought answers another question we were posing over at IMDB.  Why did Jack wait 4 years to see Ennis again?  Why did Ennis let Jack out of his sight at the end of the summer?  Neither really knew what they had until it was gone (stolen shirts and desperation notwithstanding).  "Old Brokeback got us good and it sure ain't over" to quote Jack.

I think Ennis didn't really have a choice. He was engaged. He was confused and scared. The scene where Ennis threw up after leaving Jack explains it. Ennis could not have done it....until it was too late.



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Offline ranchgal

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 29, 2005, 07:59 PM »
I agree about the close proximity, and handy at the time.
but the book also reads--they respected each other's opinions and they got along.
And kindness does tend to bring out the emotional best in people, and as they draw closer and closer to each other--they like each other.   Some friends/personalities mesh, and when they are together, they communicate like they have know each other forever---and every time they interact they get closer not only physically, but emotionally, untill they love each other too.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:00 PM »
I agree about the close proximity, and handy at the time.
but the book also reads--they respected each other's opinions and they got along.
And kindness does tend to bring out the emotional best in people, and as they draw closer and closer to each other--they like each other.   Some friends/personalities mesh, and when they are together, they communicate like they have know each other forever---and every time they interact they get closer not only physically, but emotionally, untill they love each other too.

Good point too!
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Offline brokebackmountain

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:15 PM »
I agree about the close proximity, and handy at the time.
but the book also reads--they respected each other's opinions and they got along.
And kindness does tend to bring out the emotional best in people, and as they draw closer and closer to each other--they like each other.   Some friends/personalities mesh, and when they are together, they communicate like they have know each other forever---and every time they interact they get closer not only physically, but emotionally, untill they love each other too.

After getting to know Ennis, Jack probably thought they both could have a good life but he underestimated the obstacles laying ahead of them, including Ennis's personal ones. It seems to me that they didn't really communicate verbally about their relationship. Physical attraction was there - hard to understand that after being with someone for 20 years, there is still such communication breakdown.
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:18 PM »
[hard to understand that after being with someone for 20 years, there is still such communication breakdown.

Yeah but then again..if the days they spent together were added up..it would not make a lot...so i guess that when they did meet up...they had erm..better things to do! ;D
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Offline brokebackmountain

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:20 PM »
[hard to understand that after being with someone for 20 years, there is still such communication breakdown.

Yeah but then again..if the days they spent together were added up..it would not make a lot...so i guess that when they did meet up...they had erm..better things to do! ;D

Yeah..as Jack put it - "high altitude s*x"
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Offline *Froggy*

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 29, 2005, 08:25 PM »
Yeah..as Jack put it - "high altitude s*x"

You can quote the movie...i can only quote the trailer...hang on here it is already December the 30th..which means D-Day=7!!! gotta change my signature!!!
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Offline borger1582

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 30, 2005, 01:49 AM »
This is leading to a really interesting point - in the screenplay, in a later camping reunion, the stage direction after Ennis gives Jack a look is "There is still so much uncharted territory between them."  This is actually leading up to the Mexico admission/deduction and the display of Ennis' jealousy.  Ennis' jealousy, to me, expresses his love even more.  But I have to agree with some of the posts above, that they really didn't have much time together to build their relationship - hence Jack's "everything built on that (meaning their time on Brokeback in '63)."

A somewhat heretical question, I suppose, is whether Ennis and Jack would have lasted together if they had been able to be together.  I like to believe they would have, but it seems Ennis could get along without Jack more easily than Jack without Ennis.

Maybe, like some others, I'm being too hard on Ennis.

Offline ranchgal

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 30, 2005, 06:35 PM »
I am not sure how I interpret that.  Ennis could live without Jack for long periods, but he never was far from his mind, or heart.   
It strikes me as wierd when I think about it---because Jack's need for Ennis stemmed more from the emotional--having Ennis hold him, whisper to him, be near him, than the actual physical sex, BUT he needed actual physical sex from men to be himself, and sought that out with strangers---who could do sex, but couldn't do emotion.  To be satisfied-Jack had to be with men. to be happy he had to be with Ennis.
Ennis needs Jack physically, the sex is always formost when they are together.  Though holding each other is important too---I really wonder if they would NOT have had sex, if Ennis would have felt so close or needful about Jack, considering he could go long periods of time without him, and not be too mournful.    He also would and could put other things, family, and work ahead of Jack if his life demanded it.   Jack never did that UNTIL after Ennis did.    Jack always came to Ennis whenever Ennis had time.   

Though they each loved each other more than anything/one else----they still had different needs of each other, and each fufilled something different in the other that NO one else could do.
It is very complex, and difficult to pull apart into elements.

But I too tend to believe that Ennis could live apart from Jack longer than Jack could Ennis, but I also believe that if this rancher friend of Jacks would have started holding him, and fufilling his emotional voids---he may well have started cutting back his trips with Ennis too-I don't know that he would actually ever completely give Ennis up, but he may have started occasionally making excuses too--maybe just to punish him, maybe to wean out of it---but I don't see them being able to actually be and stay together.
It would be easy to be very wrong about this too so who knows????

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 30, 2005, 07:36 PM »
whether Ennis and Jack would have lasted together if they had been able to be together.  I like to believe they would have, but it seems Ennis could get along without Jack more easily than Jack without Ennis.

Maybe, like some others, I'm being too hard on Ennis.

I did ask myself the same questios...what if Ennis had said yes to them living together?...always! What would have happened?...and i also agree with you on the fact the Jack seemed to need Ennis more than Ennis --> Jack.
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Offline zetaphi708

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #14 on: Jan 01, 2006, 10:26 AM »
My thoughts: Ennis needed love. From both the movie and the story, Ennis' family ( not the one with Alma ) pretty much abandoned him to the wind, either through death or other circumstances. Jack brought true love into his life and showed him that love, in any form, is good and helpful. Ennis seemed to be happier around Jack and I saw a lot more "Ennis-smiles" when they were together.

Offline CoyotePiper

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need for a father figure?
« Reply #15 on: Jan 04, 2006, 08:31 PM »
I thought there was an element of Ennis being a substitute father figure for Jack. Jack mentions his father several times in the film/story, often wistfully.

He seems a little heartbroken relating how his ole man "never once come to see me ride"

And just why does Jack take up bullriding? 'Cause his ole man was a rider perhaps? And he wanted to be like him?

Jack is always going to see his dad even though the dad is a prick.

"There's no pleasin my ole man"

And of course the whole "pissin" scene in the book with the puzzling final sentence. "There was no way to make things right after that"

Not to mention that Jack can never be  like his father as he was "dick - clipped"... perhaps symbolically somehow less of a man?

Offline bnjmn3

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #16 on: Jan 06, 2006, 10:54 PM »
From the time they meet, it is clear Jack is attracted to Ennis--remember the shaving in the truck mirror? In the bar, and on the mountain Ennis reveals the very personal tragedies of his youth, Jack is moved..remember that  in their most tender moments we see, Jack is always calming Ennis.."you're OK" or "you're allright." From viewing the parents at the end, Jack probably never had such an intense spiritual connection prior to Ennis..
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Offline Fleur

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #17 on: Jan 16, 2006, 05:16 PM »

In some sense they were forced into conjugal roles on BBM which I think is interesting, Jack goes out each day and Ennis tneds the camp - and then their roles are reversed. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this cos i've just seen the film the once -  Ennis begins to loosen up in his new role (when they are at the campfire and Ennis begins to talk more about himself) which he feels more comfortable in and their friendship as well as intimacy blossoms...

Offline Toadily

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #18 on: Jan 16, 2006, 05:18 PM »

In some sense they were forced into conjugal roles on BBM which I think is interesting, Jack goes out each day and Ennis tneds the camp - and then their roles are reversed. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this cos i've just seen the film the once -  Ennis begins to loosen up in his new role (when they are at the campfire and Ennis begins to talk more about himself) which he feels more comfortable in and their friendship as well as intimacy blossoms...

Oh yes, it's these very simple domestic roles they are playing.  But interesting Ennis does loosen up when the roles are reversed, although it could also be the time passing.
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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #19 on: Jan 16, 2006, 10:21 PM »
Oh yes, I'd agree it's more like because of the time passing.
Ennis tended the sheep, and Jack, especially after the first "intimacy". Along with the "dozy hug", even I would fall for him ;)

Offline kcristob

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #20 on: Jan 17, 2006, 01:13 PM »
I think also that Ennis was such an emotional stone, that when he began to loosen up and actually talk - what's not to love about that?  You KNOW that Ennis NEVER really talks to anyone.  And Jack knows that too.  That's why he's amused when Ennis DOES finally talk.  And even jack commenting on it doesn't slow it down.  Ennis has opened up.  I would have liked this opening up scene to be a bit warmer somehow.  Just a smidgion.  But it was enough.  And, after seeing it three times (a little embarrassed to say - but I HAD to) I can see many more subtle nuances that I missed at first.

There really does seem to be a physical attraction from the very first moment.  For both of them.  Ennis is sneaking looks at Jack too.  I completely missed that on the first viewing.  Ennis (in his own very quiet way) obviously enjoys Jack's frolicking personality and warmness.

But that brings me back to my big question:  would Ennis EVER have swung that direction if the mountain hadn't happened?  Personally, I don't think so.  I think the baseness(and beauty) of mountain living and the pure physical sex drive of a 19 year old man and the secluded (safe) place all conspired to make it happen.  I even think that if Jack hadn't recontacted Ennis (but thank GOD he did) Ennis would probably have lived out his life with Alma.  Never quite happy or satisfied or fullfilled, but living that life out.

Why did Jack like Ennis?  Because he was so stoic yet so fragile.

Offline jrfh50

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 22, 2006, 09:04 PM »
"Why did Jack like Ennis?  Because he was so stoic yet so fragile."

kcristob--you nailed it, pardon the expression, with these words, in my opinion. Stoic and fragile is a devastating combination of humanness. thanks for saying it.
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Offline coguaro

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #22 on: Jan 23, 2006, 05:42 AM »
I also think that Ennis is a fascinating character do to his "fragile and stoic" sides combined. He was also genuine, pure and generous (remember he didn't have sex before...) and for that maybe he fascinate Jack. This mix of masculine and purity elements are always fascinating (..at least are fascinating to me..)
I think Jack was more physically attracted in the first encounter than in love with Ennis..while Ennis, been his first a maybe unique experience, fall in love
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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #23 on: Jan 23, 2006, 06:38 AM »
so are we assuming that in the movie at least jack was not a virgin...just a thought..... it appears almost like jack seduced ennis.  i don't know if anyone noticed this, but in the first tent sceen when ennis goes in to sleep, i saw jack kind of giving a sly smil as the scene ended, i.e., they were sleep before the sex part.

Offline Kindred

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #24 on: Jan 23, 2006, 08:39 AM »
I think the movie suggests that Jack had previous encounters to BBM.  Though nothing is actually said to support it, Jack's mother seems like she knew exactly what Ennis meant to Jack.  She likely knew that her son was gay.  Then there is also the scene where Jack tries to pick up the rodeo clown.  It just seemed like something he had tried before with other people.

I disagree that there was an attraction to each other from the beginning.  I think Jack was interested, but I don't think that was on Ennis' mind.  Personally, I think the love blossomed from the friendship that they developed on the mountain together.  Ennis' is constantly portrayed as having had a difficult life.  His parents dying at a young age, then being taken care of by his older sister and brother, and finally having no where to go because there wasn't room for him anymore.  He's probably had very little emotional connection to anyone while growing up, man or woman.  BBM simply provided the opportunity to connect with another human being for the first time.  Someone who was interested in him, although likely for other reasons.  To me, Ennis is a character that was simply starving for love and attention, and Jack provided it.  Their deep friendship is much better portrayed in the short story than the film version.  And it is this deep friendship that Ennis fell in love with.  Ennis was desperate for intimacy, and he found it with Jack.

I think the attraction of Jack to Ennis was physical at first.  Jack had physical needs and he saw Ennis as an opportunity.  However, I think Jack fell in love with Ennis as he got to learn more about him.  The tragedy of his life made him a very sympathetic character in Jack's view.  We are all drawn to the sad little puppy that needs help and attention.  While "stoic and fragile", I also view Ennis as deeply emotional.  He has suppressed his emotions for so many years, and found a release for them in Jack.


Offline Kindred

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #25 on: Jan 23, 2006, 04:02 PM »
I just wanted to add something to my above post after I read the short story again during lunch. 

I equated Ennis to a puppy needing attention, then read the following line in the short story:

"Three puppies belonging to one of the blue heelers went in a pack basket, the runt inside Jack's coat, for he loved a little dog."

Offline jrfh50

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #26 on: Jan 23, 2006, 07:43 PM »
Kindred, what you say about intimacy and Ennis having no idea or experience of it, yet needing it and finding it in Jack is true...and the bit about the puppies is a perfect fit to the discussion.
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Offline jesseanne21

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #27 on: Jun 15, 2006, 12:37 PM »
I think Jack liked Ennis simply because Ennis really paid attention to Jack.  Ennis  really listened to Jack (something no one else in Jack's life did).  Jack's mother was caring, but his father was cold and critical.  Ennis heard what Jack said and went out of his way to give Jack what he wanted in he smallest ways ("No more beans.")  Ennis switched jobs with Jack because Jack hated being the sheep tender ("I'm commuting four hours a day.").  Ennis made Jack feel he was important and that he mattered.

I think that's what everyone really wants. 
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Offline shieldmaid

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #28 on: Jun 17, 2006, 08:58 PM »
I think Jack liked Ennis simply because Ennis really paid attention to Jack.  Ennis  really listened to Jack (something no one else in Jack's life did).  Jack's mother was caring, but his father was cold and critical.  Ennis heard what Jack said and went out of his way to give Jack what he wanted in he smallest ways ("No more beans.")  Ennis switched jobs with Jack because Jack hated being the sheep tender ("I'm commuting four hours a day.").  Ennis made Jack feel he was important and that he mattered.

I think that's what everyone really wants. 

Wow, jesseanne, that was beautifully expressed.  I think you're right--that each of them gives the other what he needs.  Jack comes off as a very self-confident and independent person, but he sees in Ennis an opportunity to be his true self that he doesn't get elsewhere.
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Offline gimmejack

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Re: (Spoiler) What are the reasons for Jake to like Ennis?
« Reply #29 on: Jun 17, 2006, 09:04 PM »
How about we simplify things...

The answer is because Ennis is friggin HOTTTTT!!!!!!!!   <^(
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