Author Topic: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!  (Read 6607 times)

Offline JackFromMoscow

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very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« on: Jan 17, 2015, 08:26 PM »
Hey everybody!

UPD: Guys, with all these twitters and his 140-simbols messages, maybe these are very big posts. so saving your time, I need help with translation into russian. There are quotes in the second post below, so you could go straight there. Write down the number of quote/quotes you've chosen; short Yes or No would help! Thank you.
P.S. In this very post I'm explaining this unsatisfactory situation about russian varian of BB.


First I want to say how I feel about Brokeback Mountain. Well, in fact, my first time I watched it just turned my whole life upside down! This movie has split my life to before and after it. I just couldn't imagine there is a movie like Brokeback Mountain. I'm serious, I never used to cry watching any movies. But this one... I can't exlain my reaction even to myself!Well, I'm sure there are loads of good words about the movie, so I think I wouldn't say anything new. The fact is, I'm going to record my own version of russian dialogues of the Brokeback Mountain, you know — the voiceover. (By the way, my English is not perfect, sorry for that) I'll explain, why I need this. My opinion is that the russian dubbing is really awful. I'm not saying about its quality or how had the voice actors done, it is pretty good. There's another problem there. It is the translation into Russian.
Of course, any transation just can NOT be really identical to the original. Such things as wordplay, some jokes, and the meanings of somewhat that doesn't exist in other cultures are often just impossible to transalte into other language. And that's a movie we are talking about! If one translates a book, for example, he's got all the pages and words to explain something that doesn't exist in his country, but when translating movie dialogues, there another problem appears: necessity of all the phrases to be the same lenght as they are in original language. Besides, first, russian speech is pretty slower than english's, and second, our words are commonly contain more letters in them.
For example, when Jack is going to ride a bull on the rodeo, Announcer says: "Jack's onboard Sleepy today! Let's hope he's not!" — This nice joke is pretty funny but very hard to translate, 'cause word-to-word translation seems not to sound very good in russian.
So of course Russian version of Brokeback Mountain should be a little different to the original one because of language differences. But there's no forgiveness for those who changes the sence (meaning) of the phrases without any necessity! When I compared russian and english variants of the dialogues, I was just shocked! Our translators just turned almost every word upside down!
I won't write all the disparities down here, believe me, there are loads of them. I'll write down just the one which made me shocked mostly. The last words of the movie:
"Jack... I swear...".
What do you think the russians hear?
Russian variant (translated into English) is: "Jack... I remember you...".
So... Look. Here's "I swear" in Russian: "Я клянусь". When speaking, it sounds just as long as english phrase. Even Я клянусь тебе (I swear to you), which sounds a bit better here, has not the inadmissible lenght for dubbing.
So why, WHY have they done this?! Annie Proulx once said in an interview: "This movie has no ending, in fact: every watcher should end it in his own head for himself" (It's not an accurate quote, of course, and sorry for my poor English again). What does that mean? It means that everyone should find out what exactly does Ennis swears about... just on his own! (I mean, for example, he swears he loves him, or he swears that he's going to spare more time with the darling people (for the moment, I s'pose the last one is quite right)). So those dubbers didn't give an opportunity to the watchers just understand what is this movie really about. And this is really sad. Because it's not the only mistake in russian version.
There are loads of such little missings of sencess such as next one (The last one I'm going to write down, as an example). When Jack and Ennis are doing those preparings to move to Brokeback Mountian, Jack rides a hores which starts to spin and jump. Ennis is telling Jack that he should be more careful riding this horse, and Jack's answer: "Doubt there's a one that could throw me". It means he is sure of his abilyties, he knows he's a good rider. In Russian version Ennis is saying to be careful as well as in english version, but Jack's answer is different: "C'mon, do your preparings faster, or the horse'll throw me". It means, Jack is worried that the horse could really throw him. I don't know, why did they translate this phrase wrong.
That is why I'm going to voice this movie over. And share the recording via torrent trackers, of course.
And I want really good translation. I need help with this.
As you could notice, my English is not as good as I want it to be. So there are many phrases I can't understand without rephrasing.
So I'm just going to write all the phrases I'm not able to understand and you, guys, please, just write it in other words.
Of course, a single person shouldn't help with all the phrases I've written below. I'll be happy if someone would write the number of a phrase and say short "yes" or "no".
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 05:16 AM by JackFromMoscow »

Offline JackFromMoscow

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #1 on: Jan 17, 2015, 08:26 PM »
1) - DONE
Quote
Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys,  I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?

2) - DONE
Quote
Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?

3) - DONE
Quote
Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?

4)
Quote
Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?

5)
Quote
Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)

6)
Quote
[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?

7)
Quote
Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
 piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?

8) - DONE
Quote
Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?

9)
Quote
Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".

10)
Quote
Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?

11)
Quote
Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).

12)
Quote
Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.

13)
Quote
Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?

14)
Quote
Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?

15)
Quote
Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?

16)
Quote
Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?

17)
Quote
Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback...  Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?

18)
Quote
Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?

19)
Quote
Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly  is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?

20)
Quote
Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?

21)
Quote
Alma: I'm going to yell for Monroe.
Ennis: You do it and I'll make you eat the f*cking floor.
Alma: Get out!
Ennis: And you, too!
It's not clear for me. Maybe my Subtitles are uncorrect, and Ennis says "I'll make HIM eat the f*cking floor" (and, then, "And you, too!", what is more logical)?

22)
Quote
Jack: So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! Everything's built on that! That's all we got, boy. F*cking all. So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest!
The last sentence is not understandable for me. It seems for me like that: Jack hopes Ennis realises that they have nothing but BrokebackMountain, but all his Mexico deals are not important, anyway.

23)
Quote
Lureen: Well, he said it was his favorite place. I thought he meant to get drunk. He drank a lot.
What exactly does Lureen mean? That she thought Brokeback Mountain was the favourite place of Jack to get drunk?

24)
Quote
Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?

25)
Quote
Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?

26)
Quote
Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.

Oh, Jeez, guys. It takes really much time. I'm having really big work here. Tired very much. And speaking English is hard a bit for my brains =)
I hope that's it, but if there appears more questions, I'll write 'em down.
I really appreciate your help!
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 01:10 PM by JackFromMoscow »

Offline rimasworld

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #2 on: Jan 18, 2015, 12:30 AM »
Welcome to the forum!
#2 I think either translation works or a combination of all three!
#3 Yes, git means get.
#8 Yes, Ennis meant after his folks had died.
Hope that helps  :)

Offline JackFromMoscow

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #3 on: Jan 18, 2015, 06:47 AM »
Hope that helps  :)

Oh for sure it does help. Thank you very much!

Offline chameau

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #4 on: Jan 18, 2015, 07:50 AM »
Welcome to the forum JackFromMoscow!

By the way your writen English is very good but since my first language is French I can understand some of your concerns and Brokeback Mountain for sure is ain't classical English.  I will have to look at each of your questions but I am quite sure we all can help here and rimasworld had a good start at this. ;)
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline rimasworld

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #5 on: Jan 18, 2015, 05:18 PM »
#18 I think Jack was drafted by the army but didn't pass the physical because of all his bull riding injuries. That's what he meant by too busted up.
When his dad rode the bulls they stayed in it longer and had even more life long injuries. That what Jack meant when he said he got out of it while he could still walk. 

Offline chameau

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #6 on: Jan 18, 2015, 07:42 PM »
1. Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.


Actually Jack is asking if Ennis was forced to leave home by his parents,  Ennis answered:  No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.

Actually his parents died in a car accident by missing the only curve on the road and Ennis was then raised by his brother and sister and the bank took the ranch since no one could pay the mortgage.
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline rimasworld

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #7 on: Jan 21, 2015, 03:37 PM »
#7 Yes, a bull or a bucking bronc horse
#9 I think Ennis was saying he was still a virgin
#14 He could lose his job if any of the animals died

Offline bluemountainsky

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #8 on: Feb 20, 2015, 05:45 PM »
333#1 Jack wanted to know why Ennis was working there that summer, assumed that Ennis's parents had kicked him out of the house and told him to find work. Ennis replied that it wasn't the case. His parents "run themselves off"...literally in this case, their car ran off the road because they were driving too fast and careened off a curve in the road. Ennis was only 14 at the time, and his older brother and sister took are of him for the next several years, then his sister had gotten married and left for another town, then more recently, that same year, his brother had gotten married too, so there was no where left for Ennis to stay, and that's why he went to Signal to find work.
#10 Yes, Ennis was telling Jack it wouldn't happen again. Then of course, after the second night, we all know it was no "one-shot" thing.
#11 In the 1960s, the U.S. still had the draft. So Jack was talking about how he might get a draft card and have to join the Army, since Jack was a single male over the age of 18.
#16 Jack felt that he should have written Ennis a long time ago, as by then it had been four years since they'd seen each other. Also, it's heavily implied that Jack, because didn't know where Ennis lived after they parted ways in 1963, had sent numerous post cards for the past year or so trying to find him, and then finally he sent one to Riverton, and it reached Ennis.
#23 Lureen doubted that Brokeback Mountain was a real place, she probably even doubted that this "friend" that Jack kept visiting all those years really existed. After Jack's death, word got around that he was killed because he was gay, something that Lureen had not known all those years. So when she gets the call from Ennis she suddenly puts the pieces of the puzzle together and realizes that Ennis was Jack's lover and that's the reason Jack had gone on all those trips. Jack also apparently had become an alcoholic in the last several years before his death, he drank because it was how he dealt with being apart from Ennis and his frustration in his relationship with Ennis due to Ennis's refusal to accept Jack's proposal.
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But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime;
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Like a lover's voice fires the mountainside."

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #9 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:17 PM »
 #$# JFM! Great thread!

This will keep us occupied until summer.  :cr)

Your English is great, and it's understandable that you are confused by the very stylized western idiom McMurtry used in the screen play and Annie wrote in the short story. I've never heard of dozens of these until the movie.

It will take a while to respond to all your questions, but I intend to cover them. Thank you for putting them all in separate quotes. It makes life easier.

Here is to our journey to a Russian Brokeback Mountain! :h:  ^f^ :d:
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #10 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:33 PM »
Quote
1) - DONE
Quote
Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys,  I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?

Others have already covered this! but here is my 2 cents worth.

"Run off" can also mean something more common like parents telling children to run off and play, ie, not stick around and be a nuisance. That's probably what Jack meant. It may even be the reason for him...Old Mean Twist ran him off the ranch for the summer to make money. Ennis turned the phrase around, and started a common thread of their relationship, double entendres, folksy turn of phrase, etc. His parents drove off/ran off the only curve in a straight road. After they died, the kids couldn't keep up the mortgage payment on the farm. So the bank foreclosed and the children became homeless. That's when Ennis stayed with his brother.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #11 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:36 PM »
Quote
2) - DONE
Quote
Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?

The first meaning is closer to it. Fearful, nervous, easily startled. It foreshadows Ennis and his own homophobia and the low startle point, like when a truck drive past them in the divorce scene.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #12 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:42 PM »
Quote
3) - DONE
Quote
Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?

It's short for "let's get going"  so any equivalent form would do, hurry up, let's go, etc.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #13 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:45 PM »
Quote
4)
Quote
Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?

The rules are the government regulations which forbids camping up in the grazing country. No fire for fire hazard. Aquirre got no right to force them to camp without fire, against labor codes, government rules. That's why he gave that speech in the beginning of the movie in his office.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #14 on: Feb 22, 2015, 12:50 PM »
Quote
5)
Quote
Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)

Basque is a region in Spain. There were apparently many Basque herders working in the West just after World War Two. The phrase is a kind of accusation that says "What are you two up to?" It's too early be bored with beans, so what is the REAL reason? It's the beginning of that sense of secrecy in the movie, the shared secret, the inside joke, the Closet.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #15 on: Feb 24, 2015, 12:43 PM »
Quote
6)
Quote
[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?

If there is a Russian equivalent for Game Warden, like the officers in Siberia responsible against poaching of tigers, that would be perfect.

Yes, you got Jack's meaning alright. It's a southern dialect thing, the double negative.

That's all for today. I will try to do a few each day.  :cr) :c)
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline bluemountainsky

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #16 on: Feb 24, 2015, 09:56 PM »
#18. I think Jack was saying he was able to avoid the draft because he had injuries. I guess he'd gotten a draft card, but when he'd gone in for the physical examination, they found he wasn't physically fit enough to be enlisted. I've heard of people not getting enlisted due to having flat feet and such. Also, the remark about the rodeo being different than it was in his father's day is that it had gotten tougher, and the rodeo guys sustain a lot more injuries and have to quit earlier than people back then did.
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Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #17 on: Feb 27, 2015, 01:52 AM »
Quote
7)
Quote
Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
 piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?

Stock refers to animal, cattle, as in "stockyard" which has a hint of teasing put down. Like, why do something so easy. So I'd substitute bull with animal or something equally simple. Perhaps even "a piece of meat."

Quote
8) - DONE
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Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?

Yes.

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Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".

Terrible translation. They must really want to ruin the movie. "Ain't yet had the opportunity" implies a desire for the opportunity. How about, "I haven't had the good fortune." "I haven't been so lucky."


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Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?

I would not use the negative. Instead, I would say, "This is a one time deal." Or, "Just this once."
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #18 on: Feb 28, 2015, 08:57 PM »
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Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).

Although there were protests against the war in Vietnam towards the end, rural America was staunchly patriotic and supported the military. There were people escaping the draft by crossing the border into Canada, hiding in the wilderness, or going to college, they are in the minority.

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Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.

"Fix it up" in this case implies decorating, cleaning, making it a home. The little house they had away from everyone was run-down and without modern conveniences. Alma had to do laundry by hand. Probably had to use a wood stove. Ennis would not mind it, but Alma definitely did not enjoy the primitive life.

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Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?

Bull riders just show up and pay an entry fee. Calf-roping, barrel racing, wagon racing etc, all require expensive equipment, specially trained horses. Jack also talked about the entry fee elsewhere, in the bar when they first met, and in the motel.

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Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?

"Losing them" refers to any calves dying while being born. Although it doesn't happen often, Ennis wasn't going take the chance of being fired for negligence. That's not his character. Jack, on the other hand, would take the chance. It flashes back to the scene when Ennis showed up in the mountain the day after the FNIT together, and a lamb was killed by the coyote with balls the size of apples. Ennis felt sick that he was so irresponsible.

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Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?

Or just acquaintance from work, fishing, etc. just from around, here and there.

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Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?

Yes. Exactly right.

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Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback...  Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?

$2,000 a year was probably not much, even back then when gas and everything was cheap. Entry fee for each competition is not cheap, so each time that he didn't win, he lost money. It's a lot like gambling, raffle ticket.

I looked up the US per capita income back in 1969. Jack was making around half the average, so he was at borderline poverty level. Naturally,  Ennis understood since he was himself no stranger to being poor.

http://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-trends-analysis/per_capita_personal_income/tools/0/0/
« Last Edit: Feb 28, 2015, 09:05 PM by lancecowboy »
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #19 on: Mar 07, 2015, 01:43 PM »
Only three today.  :c)


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Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?

Yes, conscription meant service was obligatory for most people, with certain exemptions. Jack was too busted up from bull riding, probably spine or too many concussions. Competition became fierce and bulls were bred to be more difficult to ride, more aggressive, not like them earlier days.

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Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly  is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?

Jack was probably more empathetic towards the children, like he was to the lamb, and to Ennis when the bear jumped him. So it was likely that Jack complained if other children teased Bobby, or the teacher was too strict with discipline. Having been abused by Old Man Twist, Jack would be especially sensitive to bullies and abusive teaching methods. They still had corporal punishment back then. Bobby was probably a little spoiled and the teacher had to punish him more than once. So Jack complained.

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Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?

Or, better yet, "...throw you across the state line into Mexico."
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline lancecowboy

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Re: very-very BIG request for HELP from Russia!
« Reply #20 on: Mar 15, 2015, 02:00 AM »
I'm skipping 21-23 and going straight to the end.

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Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?

Half-baked literally refers to lack of following through, which is similar to Lureen's notion of Jack being a dreamer, of places where bluebirds sing next to a whiskey spring. What's half-baked to Old Man Twist, is in fact what is attractive about Jack to Ennis. Jack's dreams are inspiration to Ennis, who turn them into reality. The irony of Old Man Twist making fun of his dead son's dreams when in fact, he was face to face with the man who could have made those dreams come true. He was making fun of the man who could save his ranch.


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Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?


Jack left home when he was young, and Jack's Ma kept his room unchanged all them years, from that summer up on Brokeback, to those years he went on the rodeo circuit, and then getting married off to Texas. Whenever he stayed over for a visit, he did not bother redecorating, and she liked it just the way it was because it reminded her of her little boy, and did not have much money to spare for a bigger bed, or new furnishing.


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Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.

It's a reflection of the western ideal of independence. Not about the idea of losing. If you got nothing, you don't need nothing. Cowboys don't need others, and don't need fancy possessions. They make their own tools, whatever they need, with their own hands, a sharp knife, a good ax, whatever close at hand. That's Ennis to the bone. It's the root of Ennis and his solitude before meeting Jack, and now with Jack only in his dreams.

Okay, that's all, folks. :c)
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.