Author Topic: Ennis in Greyhound station  (Read 13160 times)

Offline dirtbiker

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Ennis in Greyhound station
« on: Apr 24, 2006, 06:57 PM »
I don't think this has been discussed here, but what do you all think about Ennis being in the Greyhound station having a slice of apple pie?  Was he there waiting to go on a trip or did he just come back from a trip?  And why was it that Cassie couldn't get a hold of him at the ranch after leaving so many messages?  Did he take the bus somewhere for a while since he wasn't at the ranch?

 ::) ??? ::)
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2006, 11:30 PM by dirtbiker »

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #1 on: Apr 24, 2006, 07:34 PM »
I don't think this has been discussed here, but what do you all think about Ennis being in the Greyhound station having an slice of apple pie?  Was he there waiting to go on a trip or did he just come back from a trip?  And why was it that Cassie couldn't get a hold of him at the ranch after leaving so many messages?  Did he take the bus somewhere for a while since he wasn't at the ranch?

 ::) ??? ::)

He was in the town do everything story dirtbiker.  Town is way too small to have its own bus station I suspect.  Small towns usually have a "diner" type place to get light food and then a restaurant or two.  Because it is a "diner" bus companies have a station there to sell tickets and passengers can get something to eat.  (But something is telling me you already know that don't you?)

And, no, Ennis didn't just come back from Childress, Texas.   ;)

And I believe he was ignoring Cassie and that is why she couldn't reach him. 

« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2006, 07:40 PM by Patriot1 »
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Offline TJ

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #2 on: Apr 24, 2006, 07:50 PM »
Since "Cassie," who has no name in the book, met Ennis at the Wolf Ears Bar in Signal (according to the book also), more than likely the MOVIE bus station was just a business added to the cafe where Ennis was eating the pie.

I have ridden buses from Huntsville, Alabama to North Hollywood, California. I have ridden buses from Ft. Polk, LA to Tulsa, Oklahoma and also from to LA to Tulsa.

Although Cassie was with a current boyfriend and didn't expect Ennis to be in there, I get the feeling that she sort of felt like Jack who had a significant other but wanted to be with Ennis instead.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline Patriot1

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #3 on: Apr 24, 2006, 08:16 PM »
Although Cassie was with a current boyfriend and didn't expect Ennis to be in there, I get the feeling that she sort of felt like Jack who had a significant other but wanted to be with Ennis instead.

Yah, I kind of got that feeling when she said she had fallen in love with Ennis.

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Offline atalley

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At the Diner
« Reply #4 on: Aug 25, 2008, 07:44 PM »
I don't think this has been covered yet.  What was going on in Ennis' mind before Cassie and her new boyfriend walked in the diner?  He was obviously in tears...could it be that he was beginning to realize his love for Jack at this time?  I'm sure he was upset over the fight that they had on the last trip, but could it be more than this?

Offline chameau

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #5 on: Aug 25, 2008, 08:04 PM »
If you don't mind we merged your topic to this existing one :)
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
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Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #6 on: Aug 25, 2008, 10:18 PM »
Thanks...I didn't see the previous Thread.  Any ideas?

Offline tpe

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Re: At the Diner
« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2008, 07:45 AM »
I don't think this has been covered yet.  What was going on in Ennis' mind before Cassie and her new boyfriend walked in the diner?  He was obviously in tears...could it be that he was beginning to realize his love for Jack at this time?  I'm sure he was upset over the fight that they had on the last trip, but could it be more than this?

YES!  This is exactly the way I understood it, although I really can't be sure if this scene really was soon after the last confrontation...




Offline jackster

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Re: At the Diner
« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2008, 10:38 AM »
I don't think this has been covered yet.  What was going on in Ennis' mind before Cassie and her new boyfriend walked in the diner?  He was obviously in tears...could it be that he was beginning to realize his love for Jack at this time?  I'm sure he was upset over the fight that they had on the last trip, but could it be more than this?

Got a slightly different take on it here. I don’t see his tears, at least not before Cassie appears. I see him as just sittin’ there minding his business, eatin’ some pie. Maybe he’s feeling a little blue, could be this is in August when he shoulda’ been with Jack, but we don’t really know. He’s wearing a coat, so I guess maybe it’s cooler weather, possibly September, maybe around the time of the “anniversary” of his reunion with Jack in 1967, which in the movie was Sept. 24th. 

On being a bus station, as been said, not really a station, more likely just where the bus stopped. In a little town like this it’s almost always at some little diner or restaurant. In one of the screenplays I think they actually identify it as a Denny’s, but the décor here in the movie is no Denny’s.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #9 on: Aug 27, 2008, 07:41 AM »
Interesting, Jackster.    To be honest, I did somehow associate the last confrontation and this scene as coming one after the other.  But I understand that there is no explicit indication that this was so.  Nonetheless, I somehow felt that the beginning showed an Ennis who was unusually thoughtful, and I somehow connected this to the last confrontation.


Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #10 on: Aug 30, 2008, 10:41 AM »
I think if you look again, you'll notice the tears are there before she shows.  He looks so miserable!

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #11 on: Sep 02, 2008, 08:36 AM »
I think if you look again, you'll notice the tears are there before she shows.  He looks so miserable!

He certainly looked miserable, but I didn't notice any tears.  Perhaps I should watch this more carefully...


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #12 on: Sep 02, 2008, 10:15 AM »
I didn't notice them either... :-\\  He looks miserable indeed,but I've only noticed an insightful position in him;as thinking deeply in what Cassie has just teached him and surely trying to apply this lesson to his relationship with Jack.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
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Offline atalley

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #13 on: Sep 02, 2008, 04:43 PM »
I guess I wonder what he was thinking.  I can't imagine it being anything other than the confrontation he just had with Jack.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #14 on: Sep 03, 2008, 07:25 AM »
I didn't notice them either... :-\\  He looks miserable indeed,but I've only noticed an insightful position in him;as thinking deeply in what Cassie has just teached him and surely trying to apply this lesson to his relationship with Jack.

In a sense, I also think that the last confrontation had also taught Ennis how to deal fairly with Cassie -- even if it meant that he would hurt her.  I think this was the first indication that Ennis was gradually changing for the better.


Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #15 on: Sep 03, 2008, 07:26 AM »
I guess I wonder what he was thinking.  I can't imagine it being anything other than the confrontation he just had with Jack.

I am quite convinced that Jack was on his mind at that moment -- whether or not this scene immediately followed the last confrontation...


Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #16 on: Sep 04, 2008, 08:34 AM »
I also think the confrontation was weighing on his mind. I'm not sure how soon this scene is supposed to be after that, though. And in his conversation with Cassie he does his "blame" others thing ( I hate the word blame but can't think of how else to describe it) "Looks like I got the message in any case". That reminds me of the "once burned" comment he gave Alma. This scene makes me wonder what would have happened if they'd had one more meeting. He apologizes to Cassie here and then she defines things for him- it not being "fun" but love and he just has this look like some piece to the puzzle clicks in place. I'm sure he knew that he loved Jack but was maybe able to explain it to himself as loving the time he spent with Jack as opposed to defining "this thing", if that makes any sense.
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #17 on: Sep 04, 2008, 10:52 AM »
I also think the confrontation was weighing on his mind. I'm not sure how soon this scene is supposed to be after that, though. And in his conversation with Cassie he does his "blame" others thing ( I hate the word blame but can't think of how else to describe it) "Looks like I got the message in any case". That reminds me of the "once burned" comment he gave Alma. This scene makes me wonder what would have happened if they'd had one more meeting. He apologizes to Cassie here and then she defines things for him- it not being "fun" but love and he just has this look like some piece to the puzzle clicks in place. I'm sure he knew that he loved Jack but was maybe able to explain it to himself as loving the time he spent with Jack as opposed to defining "this thing", if that makes any sense.

I can't but quote every word you've said,Michelle.I think Ennis remained very "touched" for their confrontation;even that it helped to put some things into the right place between them,mentally and emotionally speaking.This and Cassie's conversation were for him like an open door to another way of seeing his future and his life.As you say,he knew what he was feeling,but these two events,IMO,were as a confirmation of what name he could put to "this thing".
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #18 on: Sep 05, 2008, 08:15 AM »
It's interesting that most of us (and most of the viewers, I suspect) invariably link the preceding scene (the last confrontation) to this one.  It feels so natural to make the connection, for some reason.  In a way, I feel this scene to be one that brings us "back to earth" -- after the emotional intensity of the previous scene.  It is middle ground or bridge between the previous scene and the nadir: when Ennis learns of Jack's death.


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #19 on: Sep 05, 2008, 09:30 AM »
It's interesting that most of us (and most of the viewers, I suspect) invariably link the preceding scene (the last confrontation) to this one.  It feels so natural to make the connection, for some reason.  In a way, I feel this scene to be one that brings us "back to earth" -- after the emotional intensity of the previous scene.  It is middle ground or bridge between the previous scene and the nadir: when Ennis learns of Jack's death.
I suppose they're linked,or we feel them like this,because they're some great steps in Ennis process to another way of seeing their relationship and the role he could play on it.Confrontation scene,by saying and hearing what was hidden during so many years,made him firstly exploit and,after,to think over the situation.And Cassie's scene,when he maybe was thinking in all this,made him reaffirming himself in how and when this situation could be changed.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Heathcliff Andrew Ledger (1979-2008)/Rajel Karen Ashkenazi (1986-2008)
You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline jackster

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #20 on: Sep 05, 2008, 10:39 AM »
Great posts here. Yes, just thinking of this juxtaposition cinematically and as a screenplay for a second. How masterfully these scenes are woven, going from an extraordinary scene in the mountains where two men are having it out about their love and commitment for one another and the foggy reverie of the Dozy Embrace (not your typical scene), then a cut to the most mundane everyday type scene, almost Edward Hopper-like, a lonely man sitting in a diner having coffee and a piece of apple pie.





The mastery here to show the wild contradictions in Ennis’s life, his secret deep love affair played out in the majestic mountains. His lonely daily life played out in bars, pickup trucks, and diners. Good work, damn good work.
« Last Edit: Sep 05, 2008, 01:40 PM by jackster »
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #21 on: Sep 08, 2008, 08:27 AM »
Thanks MPJ and jackster.


MPJ, I agree that we link them in our minds' eye because we see things a s a progression.

And jackster, I am amazed that you mention the diner scene as Hopper-esque.  This is certainly true.  And yes, the juxtaposition is masterly.



Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #22 on: Sep 08, 2008, 10:10 AM »
I also think the confrontation was weighing on his mind. I'm not sure how soon this scene is supposed to be after that, though. And in his conversation with Cassie he does his "blame" others thing ( I hate the word blame but can't think of how else to describe it) "Looks like I got the message in any case". That reminds me of the "once burned" comment he gave Alma. This scene makes me wonder what would have happened if they'd had one more meeting. He apologizes to Cassie here and then she defines things for him- it not being "fun" but love and he just has this look like some piece to the puzzle clicks in place. I'm sure he knew that he loved Jack but was maybe able to explain it to himself as loving the time he spent with Jack as opposed to defining "this thing", if that makes any sense.

You are so right, LJN. The "blame" thing. It reminds me of what Shaun told Zach in the car..."what do you call that?" It's exactly what Ennis was doing...feeling powerless, unable to change his circumstance, so he blames anyone and anything convenient, including Jack..."It's because of you that I'm like this."

Sulking and blaming the whole world while eating pie in the station, Cassie's comment made him realize what he could have done for love, instead of just for fun. Both Cassie was to Ennis, what Shaun was to Zach, the emotional mentor that both men needed.  If only Ennis did what Zach did, and take what he wants...which, I think, was why he sent the postcard that got returned. Imagine if Zach went to Shaun's house, and found the guy left town already. Or, Aaron at Christian's apartment, thinking the new guy moved in.  Losing Jack, Ennis was as devastated as Aaron was. Then the old man going on about the new fella, the ranch neighbour from Texas...It made the hurt even worse, the betrayal, the loss.

Jackster pointed out the contrasting technique that really brought out the power of those last scenes. All of this built up to the moment of realization, of discovery, or finding the two shirts, knowing Jack was never sore after the punch, that Jack kept their memories, alive, unwashed. To lose love and find it again, like that song Tuesday 3 AM, but in reverse, crawling through hell, and then being lifted to heaven. Ennis could not help but change in that instant.

We were all changed, and that's why we are here. To celebrate the greatest movie ever made.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #23 on: Sep 09, 2008, 08:59 AM »
Sulking and blaming the whole world while eating pie in the station, Cassie's comment made him realize what he could have done for love, instead of just for fun.

IO do think this was the fundamental realization/meaning of this scene.  It was essentially a "mirror" device, with Jack seeming to be reflected in the conversation with Cassie (lance, if you remember the "Think of it as a gift" dialogue in the gay film short we watched in Seattle, you will know what I mean...)


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #24 on: Sep 10, 2008, 10:44 AM »
IO do think this was the fundamental realization/meaning of this scene.  It was essentially a "mirror" device, with Jack seeming to be reflected in the conversation with Cassie (lance, if you remember the "Think of it as a gift" dialogue in the gay film short we watched in Seattle, you will know what I mean...)

I haven't seen this gay film short you talk about >:D  but it's clear for me that there was a mirror there; where Ennis could see Jack reflected in Cassie's image and words.I think that,meanwhile he was listening to her,he was applying her words to their situation with Jack...
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #25 on: Sep 11, 2008, 07:31 AM »
I haven't seen this gay film short you talk about >:D  but it's clear for me that there was a mirror there; where Ennis could see Jack reflected in Cassie's image and words.I think that,meanwhile he was listening to her,he was applying her words to their situation with Jack...

Exactly -- it is as if Jack is speaking through Cassie, and we see that Ennis is brought to the realization that Jack wanted something deeper than just having a "good time."


Offline lancecowboy

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #26 on: Sep 11, 2008, 09:05 AM »
Exactly -- it is as if Jack is speaking through Cassie, and we see that Ennis is brought to the realization that Jack wanted something deeper than just having a "good time."

I never understood that movie, tpe, so the comment "think of it as a gift" still escapes me. But your explanation is bang on. I love that, Ennis seeing Jack through Cassie...Thanks, dude. I knew that scene was special, but never quite put a finger on it, except that Cassie showed Ennis the meaning of love, somehow. Now I see it clearly, it's night and day.
Heath, you are loved, like this, always.

Offline tpe

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Re: Ennis in Greyhound station
« Reply #27 on: Sep 12, 2008, 08:11 AM »
Thanks lance, but I think all of us here share in bringing out the wonderful subtlety of that scene -- the mirroring that we see so many times in BBM. 

I agree -- that scene was very special.  It was in this scene that we see Ennis beginning to change -- not really during the last Confrontation...