Author Topic: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers  (Read 25076 times)

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Many critics have suggested that at least some 15 minutes of scenes could have been slashed out of Brokeback Mountain.

I am in the opinion that none of the approximate 2 hours 15 minutes of viewing time was superfluous.

Ang Lee, the screenplay writers, and the actors/actresses have stated on different occasions that what they wanted first and foremost was to respect Proulx's intentions and be as faithful to the original story as was possible from the cinematic standpoint.

I suspect that a number of the critics judged the film to be too long because either they have never read the original story or they believed that the film should be critiqued without any reference to Proulx's wishes or to faithfulness with respect to the original material.

To those who have not read the original story, do you think the film was unnecessarily long? 

To those who have read the story, do you think it was possible for the movie to be just as faithful to the original story and be shorter than what it currently is?

Lastly, I know that a number of forumers have said that perhaps more could have been shown about Ennis' and Jack's time together to reinforce the depth of the 20-year relationship.  The implication here is that some of us would have liked to have seen additional scenes that show Enis and Jack together as they got older (as opposed to just seeing this developed in the beginning of the film). 

If you thought the film too long, what scenes would you have edited out?

If you wanted more scenes showing Ennis and Jack, what aspects did you want further elaborated?

Sorry for making this so long!

« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 03:51 PM by tpe »

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #1 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:10 PM »
good one...i'll come back to comment on that cheers...i'm too moved by a fan fiction i jut read to answer right away! :-[

Okay i'm back...well to me the movie was a big long...but hear me out...only because I knew the story inside out and knew what was coming...my friends did not complain one bit about the length...it's just me.

I cannot wait to see the deleted scenes from the DVD...I cannot wait to have the DVD..and play it again and again and again...BBM got me good! ;D

x Froggy

ps: like you though i could have done with a few more Ennis and Jack scenes...and cut some scenery...maybe, just maybe!  ;)
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 04:57 PM by frog123 »
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #2 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:38 PM »
BBM is slow, no too long.  I read somewhere Jake reporting some scenes they did were deleted a the editing and some others were kept.  He was surprised that some scenes they worked on were very hard were not kept.  He mentioned it was all Ang's decision and he respected it.  I have being surfing for a while looking for this interview.  If I ever find it, I'll get back to you   ???  Also, I saw one picture of those guys in a garage looking at something, they're among the killers.  Look at the credits, they mention a mechanic in the bunch of killers.  What they witnessed, was it the reason of the killing?  That scene was also deleted.  The killing scene was long enough for me no need to see more.   :-\ Again, if I could find the picture, I will post it... might need some help from you froggy, I'm so nuts!    ???
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline Toadily

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2777
  • Gender: Female
  • "Friend, we got ourselves a situation here"
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #3 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:42 PM »
Gosh it will be a great DVD, I am sure there are a ton of deleted scenes.  I am sure for an actor it's hard to see things get cut.
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline Toadily

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2777
  • Gender: Female
  • "Friend, we got ourselves a situation here"
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #4 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:49 PM »
No, I don't think it could be cut, I mean and why?  Munich is 2 hours 44 minutes!
I just don't know what scene you could cut. 
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #5 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:53 PM »
BBM is slow, no too long.  I read somewhere Jake reporting some scenes they did were deleted a the editing and some others were kept.  He was surprised that some scenes they worked on were very hard were not kept.  He mentioned it was all Ang's decision and he respected it.  I have being surfing for a while looking for this interview.  If I ever find it, I'll get back to you   ???  Also, I saw one picture of those guys in a garage looking at something, they're among the killers.  Look at the credits, they mention a mechanic in the bunch of killers.  What they witnessed, was it the reason of the killing?  That scene was also deleted.  The killing scene was long enough for me no need to see more.   :-\ Again, if I could find the picture, I will post it... might need some help from you froggy, I'm so nuts!    ???

Great!  Hope you find the interview and picture.

I have noticed that there are quite a number of production/marketing shots and excerpts out there that are not to be found in the movie.

For example, the well-know shot showing Jack and Lureen together with their newborn child has been the subject of some controversy with respect to advertising, but I am sure this shot is not to be found in the movie.

Quite a few outdoor scenes that never made it to the final version, such as a number of ones showing a shirtless Gyllenhaal, I think, have been used in various marketing campaigns.

Nevertheless, the film as it is is surprisingly close to the screenplay.  I doubt that the screenplay writers added/subtracted a lot during filming, because only one of them happened to have been on-site the entire time.  So this is something of a mystery to me.  Perhaps Ang Lee toyed with various additional scenes and opted to cut them all out in the end?
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 05:00 PM by tpe »

Offline Toadily

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2777
  • Gender: Female
  • "Friend, we got ourselves a situation here"
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #6 on: Jan 10, 2006, 04:58 PM »
It cracks me up how Jake without a shirt is such a selling point,I mean very understandable but  i wonder if men
feel like cheap beefcake ever?  I hear he was undressed a lot in Jarhead.
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #7 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:02 PM »
. might need some help from you froggy, I'm so nuts!    ???

just ask dear Pierre...i'll see what i can do x


Also, I saw one picture of those guys in a garage looking at something, they're among the killers.  Look at the credits, they mention a mechanic in the bunch of killers.  What they witnessed, was it the reason of the killing?  That scene was also deleted. 

What garage scene?
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 05:06 PM by frog123 »
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #8 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:04 PM »
It cracks me up how Jake without a shirt is such a selling point,I mean very understandable but  i wonder if men
feel like cheap beefcake ever?  I hear he was undressed a lot in Jarhead.

I suspect that Gyllenhaal takes all this in stride, as he is probably used to it.  But I'm sure he wishes he'd eventually get noticed primarily for his acting.  I think Jarhead and especially BBM are critical points in his career.

 

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #9 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:05 PM »
It cracks me up how Jake without a shirt is such a selling point,I mean very understandable but  i wonder if men
feel like cheap beefcake ever?  I hear he was undressed a lot in Jarhead.

I suspect that Gyllenhaal takes all this in stride, as he is probably used to this.  But I'm sure he wishes he'd eventually get noticed primarily for his acting.  I think Jarhead and especially BBM are critical points in his career.

hear hear..tpe


BTW tpe...luv your green stars...mine are blue..........just blue! I want flashy stars!!! :P
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 05:16 PM by frog123 »
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #10 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:07 PM »
It cracks me up how Jake without a shirt is such a selling point,I mean very understandable but  i wonder if men
feel like cheap beefcake ever?  I hear he was undressed a lot in Jarhead.

I suspect that Gyllenhaal takes all this in stride, as he is probably used to this.  But I'm sure he wishes he'd eventually get noticed primarily for his acting.  I think Jarhead and especially BBM are critical points in his career.

hear hear..tpe


BTW tpe...luv your green stars...mine are blue..........just blue! I want flashy golden stars!!! :P

Why not white or tan?  Blue for Jack... White and tan for Ennis!

Offline Toadily

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2777
  • Gender: Female
  • "Friend, we got ourselves a situation here"
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #11 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:09 PM »
That is what is cool about Jake is there is substance there too.

It's funny cause Heath is a hunk too but you just don't see
everyone getting his shirt off as much.  It reminds me of the old
Star Treks and Shatner ending up shirtless all the time. 
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #12 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:12 PM »
That is what is cool about Jake is there is substance there too.

It's funny cause Heath is a hunk too but you just don't see
everyone getting his shirt off as much.  It reminds me of the old
Star Treks and Shatner ending up shirtless all the time. 

Well at least Heath is confortable with his nudity..we get to see his butt and all..whereas Jake (sorry fans) used a body/stunt double!!!! ;D
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2006, 05:16 PM by frog123 »
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #13 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:13 PM »
Why not white or tan?  Blue for Jack... White and tan for Ennis!

??? ??? ?
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #14 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:14 PM »
That is what is cool about Jake is there is substance there too.

It's funny cause Heath is a hunk too but you just don't see
everyone getting his shirt off as much.  It reminds me of the old
Star Treks and Shatner ending up shirtless all the time. 


;D

I feel that all the actors and actresses in BBM will get something good out of the association -- in the long run.  I suspect this will be the case whether or not any one of them ever wins an academy award.

But ok, do we agree that all of us want more scenes of a shirtless Gyllenhaal?

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #15 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:21 PM »
Why not white or tan?  Blue for Jack... White and tan for Ennis!

??? ??? ?

Sorry Froggy.  Disregard the inanity! :)

I agree that I wouldn't mind more scenes of the two protagonists, but I must admit that I did love the scenic shots a lot.

Some of my friends go up to Alberta in the summer.  I'm beginning to like the idea...

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #16 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:28 PM »
Quote
Quote from: chameau on Today at 04:38:17pm
Also, I saw one picture of those guys in a garage looking at something, they're among the killers.  Look at the credits, they mention a mechanic in the bunch of killers.  What they witnessed, was it the reason of the killing?  That scene was also deleted. 

What garage scene?

It was deleted, I saw a picture from it and like the interview of Jake, will do my best to retrieve them... I went to so many websites!  I'm not about to go to bed early...  Not addicted, Nah!  ::)
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #17 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:47 PM »
Finally got the interview, this is what Jake said:  “There’s an odd benevolence to him and his process (Ang Lee), in the same way that his movies are benevolent. It’s empowering because you feel like, ‘Okay I’ve given all I can. There are scenes I’ve seen and I’m like, ‘Oh wow, I gave so much more, but he pulled it back.’ And that was him balancing his film. I just learned a lot as an actor in a director, especially in particular an auteur’s movie. It’s just another tool on my tool belt

Full interview at:  http://movies.about.com/od/brokebackmountain/a/brokeback112905.htm

Now lets go for the garage picture...  ???
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #18 on: Jan 10, 2006, 05:49 PM »
Finally got the interview, this is what Jake said:  “There’s an odd benevolence to him and his process (Ang Lee), in the same way that his movies are benevolent. It’s empowering because you feel like, ‘Okay I’ve given all I can. There are scenes I’ve seen and I’m like, ‘Oh wow, I gave so much more, but he pulled it back.’ And that was him balancing his film. I just learned a lot as an actor in a director, especially in particular an auteur’s movie. It’s just another tool on my tool belt

Full interview at:  http://movies.about.com/od/brokebackmountain/a/brokeback112905.htm

Now lets go for the garage picture...  ???

Thanks chameau!  I find the whole garage episode curious and interesting.

Offline Toadily

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2777
  • Gender: Female
  • "Friend, we got ourselves a situation here"
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #19 on: Jan 10, 2006, 06:12 PM »
Ang Lee does great repression (the whole "holding back" things Jake speaks of), did anyone see Ice Storm? Great film
"it's Love, Blockhead!"
-Pierre Marivaux  The Triumph of Love

"To love an idea is to love it a little more than one should."  -Jean Rostand

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #20 on: Jan 10, 2006, 06:26 PM »
Ang Lee does great repression (the whole "holding back" things Jake speaks of), did anyone see Ice Storm? Great film

Yes.  I do agree. 

That Jake interview was pretty good.  Nice to read that Proulx's praise meant a lot to him.

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #21 on: Jan 10, 2006, 06:58 PM »
Now got the names of the killers:

Gary Lauder ....  Killer Mechanic
Christian Fraser ....  Grease Monkey
Cam Sutherland ....  Assailant

We see two of them on this picture... might find it before I retire.  Don't hold your breath!   :P
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline bnjmn3

  • Jack
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
  • Gender: Male
  • BBM: The Best Picture Show
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #22 on: Jan 10, 2006, 07:10 PM »
I think the film's length is fine--the result of much thought from some very gifted people who have lived with this material longer that anyone else...Selfishly, I could have watched much more..
Discussing Ang Lee and repression...remember the Wedding Banquet? Or Alan Richman's character who longed for Kate Winslett in Sense and Sensibility?  Ang seems to be artist who is attracted to repression and its effects. I think there is an element of Eastern philosophy (repression, patience, introspection) that runs through Lee's work. Spielberg, Zemekis, Cameron, Lucas..they don't have that predilection. Their movies are 2 1/2 to 3 hours..and so much time is spent on Special Effects.
I can't imagine cutting any scenes..only adding.
We can't change it. We will have to stand it.

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #23 on: Jan 10, 2006, 07:17 PM »
I think the film's length is fine--the result of much thought from some very gifted people who have lived with this material longer that anyone else...Selfishly, I could have watched much more..
Discussing Ang Lee and repression...remember the Wedding Banquet? Or Alan Richman's character who longed for Kate Winslett in Sense and Sensibility?  Ang seems to be artist who is attracted to repression and its effects. I think there is an element of Eastern philosophy (repression, patience, introspection) that runs through Lee's work. Spielberg, Zemekis, Cameron, Lucas..they don't have that predilection. Their movies are 2 1/2 to 3 hours..and so much time is spent on Special Effects.
I can't imagine cutting any scenes..only adding.

great POV thankx
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #24 on: Jan 10, 2006, 07:25 PM »
Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the film's length is fine--the result of much thought from some very gifted people who have lived with this material longer that anyone else...Selfishly, I could have watched much more..
Discussing Ang Lee and repression...remember the Wedding Banquet? Or Alan Richman's character who longed for Kate Winslett in Sense and Sensibility?  Ang seems to be artist who is attracted to repression and its effects. I think there is an element of Eastern philosophy (repression, patience, introspection) that runs through Lee's work. Spielberg, Zemekis, Cameron, Lucas..they don't have that predilection. Their movies are 2 1/2 to 3 hours..and so much time is spent on Special Effects.
I can't imagine cutting any scenes..only adding.

You are comparing gastronomy to fast food.  Good wine to cheap beer... no less.  Ang Lee is from a class apart of directors.  Ang could say a lot... without words, this is poetry.  No less! BBM is his Masterpiece, already a great classic. Looking at what you wrote, I'll look to rent Sense and Sensibility, I never saw it, Ice Storm neither by the way.   I am just glad Independent Studios got most of the awards nominations.  Time for payback!   ;D
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline CoyotePiper

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 39
  • Gender: Male
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #25 on: Jan 10, 2006, 08:51 PM »
Quote
Well at least Heath is confortable with his nudity..we get to see his butt and all..whereas Jake (sorry fans) used a body/stunt double!!!! ;D

He used a body double in the jump off the cliff scene. And the rumor going around is that he's afraid of heights so was unable to do that jump. Not afraid of heights here but I sure wouldn't jump off that cliff.

But he was clearly bareass in the stream scene. And that was clearly Jake in the tent.

Plus if you've seen Jarhead that is most definetly Jake shaking his naked tush around in the Santa dance scene,as well as  the upright shag scene.

And those paparazzi shots floating around clearly show closeups of the double's face as well as Heath's dickeroo.

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #26 on: Jan 10, 2006, 08:54 PM »
Quote
Well at least Heath is confortable with his nudity..we get to see his butt and all..whereas Jake (sorry fans) used a body/stunt double!!!! ;D

He used a body double in the jump off the cliff scene. And the rumor going around is that he's afraid of heights so was unable to do that jump. Not afraid of heights here but I sure wouldn't jump off that cliff.

But he was clearly bareass in the stream scene. And that was clearly Jake in the tent.

Plus if you've seen Jarhead that is most definitely Jake shaking his naked tush around in the Santa dance scene,as well as  the upright shag scene.

And those paparazzi shots floating around clearly show closeups of the double's face as well as Heath's dickeroo.

Absolutely right there CoyotePiper...*blushing Froggy* admits that she had a look at those photos...when i was in Oz last year, they were in all the magasines!!!
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline borger1582

  • Alma Jr.
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #27 on: Jan 11, 2006, 12:13 AM »
Gosh it will be a great DVD, I am sure there are a ton of deleted scenes.  I am sure for an actor it's hard to see things get cut.

There might in fact be a lot of deleted scenes that exist, but I'm afraid we may never see them.

Two points on this: 1. I was so excited for "cut" or "deleted" scenes after I saw the film that I did an informal survey of other Ang Lee movies which have been released on DVD, mainly by checking the "DVD details" link on the IMDB.  Unfortunately, although many appeared to have added commentary, none of the Ang Lee movies I checked had deleted scenes mentioned in this IMDB feature link.  2. I think that as an artist, Ang Lee would perhaps want his statement to stand on its own without leaving it up to the audience to add things he chose to cut to make his "statement."  So, if I were proud of my film, I wouldn't want stuff I cut to be available - it was all left out for a reason.  Now, on the other hand, if I had to cut my story to keep it from an extraordinarily long running time, I might feel differently . . .

As to the length of the film, on my first viewing I felt as another poster above (sorry can't remember who).  I knew the story so well, and I knew what was coming, and I was looking for the things I loved best from the story, so - I kinda thought it WAS too long.  After a second, third and fourth viewing, however, I can report that I, too, feel there was "never enough time, never enough."  As a poster on an IMDB thread said long ago, we just want to hang out with the boys more because we love being with them - so a longer film would have (would be) great at this point.  I should note that I was actually quite irritated on my first viewing (remember I loved the story first) with Ennis and Alma Jr.'s discussion leading up to the "Jack, I swear . . . " ending.  Now, of course, I love it, because after being so closed off, I love seeing "film Ennis" as I call him move positively in his life thanks to his relationship with Jack.

But I'm getting off topic.  I suppose If I HAD to cut something, I would have cut Cassie in favor of a little more time between the guys as their relationship progressed.  But I'm not a screenwriter nor a director - and maybe that's the beauty and strong pull of this film - the artists knew just how much to give us to make us come away longing for more.

I always admired sitcom/t v drama folks who stopped the show before it got stale - and for so many of us, this apparently is a "love that will never grow old."

Offline *Froggy*

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 10977
  • Gender: Female
  • No longer using this account: frog123
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #28 on: Jan 11, 2006, 04:05 AM »
I always admired sitcom/t v drama folks who stopped the show before it got stale - and for so many of us, this apparently is a "love that will never grow old."

I guess you are right x
Support bacteria, they are the only culture some people have!


If you press me to say why I loved him, I can say no more than because he was he, and I was I.
~ Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1533-1592) ~ (Thankx to gimmejack)

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Should the film had added/subtracted more? - possible spoilers
« Reply #29 on: Jan 11, 2006, 08:25 AM »
borger1582 brought out a great point: I guess it is a natural reaction from those familiar with the Proulx story that the movie was a bit too long on first viewing.  I actually felt the same way initially, but on second viewing, I completely changed my mind.

I tend to agree with bnjmn3 that the film as is IS a unified, finished product that need not be tampered with.  I somehow get the feeling that there is a delicate equilibrium here that would not brook addition or subtraction of material.  Ang Lee must have some inherent alchemy in mind when he decided on the final inclusions.

The Cassie scene is probably one that could be dispensed with, although I must admit that it served a wonderful purpose.  It certainly illustrates how hemmed-in Ennis had become at that stage in life: fearful of commitment for fear of hurting others.  But most of all, it shows how commited the Ennis charcter was to his love of Jack.  It was natural that Ennis was shown to be jealous of Jack's Mexico trips.  The Cassie scenes reinforce the logic of it all.

I initially wanted more scenes that showed-off more of the intense emotional attachment between Ennis and Jack (served most wonderfully, for example, by the great kissing scene!) But now I realize that Ang Lee's restraint (or is it his love of repression, as so many posts have cited?) is working here for the better.  As in a Buddhist way of looking at things: eat until you are only half full.  In this way, you appreciate what you have ingested, and are not sated to excess. :)
« Last Edit: Jan 11, 2006, 09:06 AM by tpe »