Author Topic: Double Meanings in BBM Lines  (Read 267025 times)

Offline tpe

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Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« on: May 25, 2006, 10:09 AM »
This thread is devoted to those lines in BBM where multiple meanings could be assigned.

To start this thread, I call your attention to 3 instances. 

The first 2 have been touched upon in a number of previous threads.

The last one just occurred to me yesterday.

The first case involved Ennis's 'threat' to Jack in the last meeting: 'All them things I don't know will get you killed if I come to know them, and I ain't jokin' 





Some people in previous threads have argued that there is a double meaning here.  It is as if Ennis is saying that Jack would be killed by 'all them things' that Ennis did not know.  Indeed, Jack was killed most likely in connection with something like this.

The second case involves Jack's retort: 'So I hope you know that if you don't never know the rest'.  This line is the subject of an entire thread, and I leave it to the reader to check this thread out and see the multiple meanings assigned to this line.

The third one occured to me yesterday.  In the scene where Jack is crying after being 'rejected' by Ennis after the divorce, you hear music from the award-winning song 'A Love That Will Never Grow Old'  I have always interpreted this as a commentary that tells us that the love between Ennis and Jack will never die -- in spite of everything.  But yesterday, I have come to realize that it could also be interpreted as a commentary of Jack's love never growing old -- simply because Jack himself will die young in his love.





Please feel free to add any other lines that may be interpreted in multiple ways...






Offline edgar

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 10:40 AM »
"The third one occured to me yesterday.  In the scene where Jack is crying after being 'rejected' by Ennis after the divorce, you hear music from the award-winning song 'A Love That Will Never Grow Old'  I have always interpreted this as a commentary that tells us that the love between Ennis and Jack will never die -- in spite of everything.  But yesterday, I have come to realize that it could also be interpreted as a commentary of Jack's love never growing old -- simply because Jack himself will die young in his love."

 :\'(    No words.



Good thread.

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 10:44 AM »
Thanks edgar

I know you will appreciate the correspondence between this and Houseman:


The Lads in their hundreds to Ludlow come in for the fair, 
  There’s men from the barn and the forge and the mill and the fold, 
The lads for the girls and the lads for the liquor are there, 
  And there with the rest are the lads that will never be old. 
 
There’s chaps from the town and the field and the till and the cart,       
  And many to count are the stalwart, and many the brave, 
And many the handsome of face and the handsome of heart, 
  And few that will carry their looks or their truth to the grave. 
 
I wish one could know them, I wish there were tokens to tell 
  The fortunate fellows that now you can never discern;         
And then one could talk with them friendly and wish them farewell 
  And watch them depart on the way that they will not return. 
 
But now you may stare as you like and there’s nothing to scan; 
  And brushing your elbow unguessed-at and not to be told 
They carry back bright to the coiner the mintage of man,         
  The lads that will die in their glory and never be old. 
 


Indeed, a love that will never be old.






Offline donnaread

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2006, 11:51 AM »
The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   :X

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Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2006, 12:08 PM »
The line that has double meaning for me is what the bartender said after Jack had just been rejected by Jimbo the rodeo clown.  He says "You ever try calf roping?"  I think he was needling Jack.  In other words "You can't rope a man, try roping a calf."  I didn't like Jimbo, and I think that bartender was being just plain MEAN!  He HAD to have heard the exchange that had just taken place between Jack and Jimbo.   :X

Donna

How interesting.  Thanks Donna. 

Yes, that scene was a bit difficult for me to watch.  He was really humiliated in this scene, and he was most certainly in danger.


aimi15

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2006, 01:58 PM »
tpe, regarding a love that will never grow old. I noticed this myself after first buying the soundtrack and listening to the song properly. I still wonder the true meaning of the words, i guess its just one of those things that is meant to be ambiguous, and you draw your own conclusions from it, perhaps it could depend on what feelings you want to feel on hearing it. I have found it far too upsetting to dwell on the second meaning (although it does creep in fromn time to time  :\'(). I tell myself it must be a celebration of their love, like you say, a love that will never die, otherwise i'd probably go fully crazy instead of being only halfway there  ^*()

Sunflower79

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2006, 02:10 PM »
the song that Jack and Lurren dance too..(looked it up and found the words) It talks about being in love..and how Jack and Lurreen are supposed to be in love and all..but maybe its talking about Ennis and Jacks love for each other..and it speaks about thier relationship..being lonely, being in love, is going to work, we will be there for each other..when at first glance it would be seem that Jack and Lurreen are in love and all..but I am thinking the song represents Jack's and Ennis love for each other..



Mary McBride Lyrics (http://www.stlyrics.com/b/brokebackmountain.htm)
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.
No one, no one.

aimi15

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2006, 02:17 PM »
the song that Jack and Lurren dance too..(looked it up and found the words) It talks about being in love..and how Jack and Lurreen are supposed to be in love and all..but maybe its talking about Ennis and Jacks love for each other..and it speaks about thier relationship..being lonely, being in love, is going to work, we will be there for each other..when at first glance it would be seem that Jack and Lurreen are in love and all..but I am thinking the song represents Jack's and Ennis love for each other..



Sunflower79, i am in full agreement with your comments. The way Jack looks off into the distance when he is dancing with Lureen, IMO at that moment he isn't there with Lureen. All his thoughts are with Ennis, holding Lureen but unable to connect with her in the way he wanted to with his TRUE love. Thank you so much for posting the lyrics, it is a definite double meaning. The song tries to make us think it is related to Jack and Lureen, but of course we know better  ;)

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2006, 02:21 PM »
tpe, regarding a love that will never grow old. I noticed this myself after first buying the soundtrack and listening to the song properly. I still wonder the true meaning of the words, i guess its just one of those things that is meant to be ambiguous, and you draw your own conclusions from it, perhaps it could depend on what feelings you want to feel on hearing it. I have found it far too upsetting to dwell on the second meaning (although it does creep in fromn time to time  :\'(). I tell myself it must be a celebration of their love, like you say, a love that will never die, otherwise i'd probably go fully crazy instead of being only halfway there  ^*()

Thanks aimi15.  Yes, I would prefer the first meaning -- that their love will forever stay young.   But that song also gives a strong sense of irony to the scene when he is crying on his way to Mexico.  If we juxtapose this with the double meaning of a life of love cut short, it becomes a double sarcasm too painful to bear.

The fact that Jack never fully lived a life of love with anybody gives his short life and immediacy that I am sure Ennis appreciated in the end.  Jack never grew old in the peace and security of that love he craved for.  It was his fate to be cut down in his prime.  But even as he died too soon, I believe he still had within him that same love inebriated with the spirit of his youth, his unflagging idealism. In this sense, his life and death are both memorials to the beauty and power of both interpretations.


aimi15

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2006, 02:28 PM »
tpe, regarding a love that will never grow old. I noticed this myself after first buying the soundtrack and listening to the song properly. I still wonder the true meaning of the words, i guess its just one of those things that is meant to be ambiguous, and you draw your own conclusions from it, perhaps it could depend on what feelings you want to feel on hearing it. I have found it far too upsetting to dwell on the second meaning (although it does creep in fromn time to time  :\'(). I tell myself it must be a celebration of their love, like you say, a love that will never die, otherwise i'd probably go fully crazy instead of being only halfway there  ^*()

Thanks aimi15.  Yes, I would prefer the first meaning -- that their love will forever stay young.   But that song also gives a strong sense of irony to the scene when he is crying on his way to Mexico.  If we juxtapose this with the double meaning of a life of love cut short, it becomes a double sarcasm too painful to bear.

The fact that Jack never fully lived a life of love with anybody gives his short life and immediacy that I am sure Ennis appreciated in the end.  Jack never grew old in the peace and security of that love he craved for.  It was his fate to be cut down in his prime.  But even as he died too soon, I believe he still had within him that same love inebriated with the spirit of his youth, his unflagging idealism. In this sense, his life and death are both memorials to the beauty and power of both interpretations.


That's done it... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(. Beautifully expressed though  :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2006, 02:31 PM »
the song that Jack and Lurren dance too..(looked it up and found the words) It talks about being in love..and how Jack and Lurreen are supposed to be in love and all..but maybe its talking about Ennis and Jacks love for each other..and it speaks about thier relationship..being lonely, being in love, is going to work, we will be there for each other..when at first glance it would be seem that Jack and Lurreen are in love and all..but I am thinking the song represents Jack's and Ennis love for each other..



Mary McBride Lyrics (http://www.stlyrics.com/b/brokebackmountain.htm)
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.
No one, no one.


Superb!!!!  There is so much double meaning of this nature in the scenes when only music is playing, no? 

The dance scene where we hear "Nobody Loves You Like Me".  It is Ennis that Jack is actually longing for in this scene!!!










Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2006, 02:35 PM »
tpe, regarding a love that will never grow old. I noticed this myself after first buying the soundtrack and listening to the song properly. I still wonder the true meaning of the words, i guess its just one of those things that is meant to be ambiguous, and you draw your own conclusions from it, perhaps it could depend on what feelings you want to feel on hearing it. I have found it far too upsetting to dwell on the second meaning (although it does creep in fromn time to time  :\'(). I tell myself it must be a celebration of their love, like you say, a love that will never die, otherwise i'd probably go fully crazy instead of being only halfway there  ^*()

Thanks aimi15.  Yes, I would prefer the first meaning -- that their love will forever stay young.   But that song also gives a strong sense of irony to the scene when he is crying on his way to Mexico.  If we juxtapose this with the double meaning of a life of love cut short, it becomes a double sarcasm too painful to bear.

The fact that Jack never fully lived a life of love with anybody gives his short life and immediacy that I am sure Ennis appreciated in the end.  Jack never grew old in the peace and security of that love he craved for.  It was his fate to be cut down in his prime.  But even as he died too soon, I believe he still had within him that same love inebriated with the spirit of his youth, his unflagging idealism. In this sense, his life and death are both memorials to the beauty and power of both interpretations.


That's done it... :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(. Beautifully expressed though  :\'(

aimi15, don't make me cry too!   :(


Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2006, 02:37 PM »
When i heard the song in the divorce scene it was really heartbreaking i mean Jack was really destroyed Ennis just rejected him and that song was reminding him that their love would be the same always and would never grow old. I'm one those who believe their love was a bond that was stronger than any other bond that the human being have know about.

But yes  :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( all the songs in the movie show a feeling or reafirm their relationship i can tell you when they selected them they were expecting them to cause this exact feeling in all of us.

but well

The third one occured to me yesterday.  In the scene where Jack is crying after being 'rejected' by Ennis after the divorce, you hear music from the award-winning song 'A Love That Will Never Grow Old'  I have always interpreted this as a commentary that tells us that the love between Ennis and Jack will never die -- in spite of everything.  But yesterday, I have come to realize that it could also be interpreted as a commentary of Jack's love never growing old -- simply because Jack himself will die young in his love.


their love never grow old not even for ennis after jack death  :\'( :\'( :\'(



another line was their conversation about the pentecost in wich jack tell him "When folks like you and me would go straight to hell" and he answered "speak for yourself you may be a sinner but i ain't got the oppurnity" i think that with this line Ennis told Jack that he was virgin
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline NoReins

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2006, 02:47 PM »
another line was their conversation about the pentecost in wich jack tell him "When folks like you and me would go straight to hell" and he answered "speak for yourself you may be a sinner but i ain't got the oppurnity" i think that with this line Ennis told Jack that he was virgin

I was just going to post about this one - but I got a slightly different meaning out of it, Carlos. I saw it as Ennis flirting with Jack - and of course we all know that he got the opportunity (to be a sinner) a few hours later.....
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

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He was, as an actor and a professional and a human being, one of a kind

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This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

Kim Ledger, accepting Heath's Oscar.

Sunflower79

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2006, 03:04 PM »
Quote
When i heard the song in the divorce scene it was really heartbreaking i mean Jack was really destroyed Ennis just rejected him and that song was reminding him that their love would be the same always and would never grow old. I'm one those who believe their love was a bond that was stronger than any other bond that the human being have know about.

that scene gets me every time too..its so sad, and heartbreaking..their love did last through time..Jack started out being so exicted and happy and then he got his hopes dashed..that scene always makes me sad  :( :( :\'( :\'(

Quote
The dance scene where we hear "Nobody Loves You Like Me".  It is Ennis that Jack is actually longing for in this scene!!!

I agree..Jack is defenly wanting Ennis..thanks for finding the pic :)

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2006, 03:26 PM »
another line was their conversation about the pentecost in wich jack tell him "When folks like you and me would go straight to hell" and he answered "speak for yourself you may be a sinner but i ain't got the oppurnity" i think that with this line Ennis told Jack that he was virgin

Carlos_H82, this is pretty good.  Of course!  This certainly is so full of double meanings.  Quite flirtatious on one level, but it certainly goes deeper -- encapsulating about an underlying truth, as well as an awakening as far as love is concerned.

   

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2006, 03:27 PM »
another line was their conversation about the pentecost in wich jack tell him "When folks like you and me would go straight to hell" and he answered "speak for yourself you may be a sinner but i ain't got the oppurnity" i think that with this line Ennis told Jack that he was virgin

I was just going to post about this one - but I got a slightly different meaning out of it, Carlos. I saw it as Ennis flirting with Jack - and of course we all know that he got the opportunity (to be a sinner) a few hours later.....


NoReins, we sensed the same flirtatious undertone here.   Thanks for affirming this.



Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2006, 03:29 PM »
Quote
When i heard the song in the divorce scene it was really heartbreaking i mean Jack was really destroyed Ennis just rejected him and that song was reminding him that their love would be the same always and would never grow old. I'm one those who believe their love was a bond that was stronger than any other bond that the human being have know about.

that scene gets me every time too..its so sad, and heartbreaking..their love did last through time..Jack started out being so exicted and happy and then he got his hopes dashed..that scene always makes me sad  :( :( :\'( :\'(

Quote
The dance scene where we hear "Nobody Loves You Like Me".  It is Ennis that Jack is actually longing for in this scene!!!

I agree..Jack is defenly wanting Ennis..thanks for finding the pic :)

Sunflower79, do you also sense double mwanings in the songs that accompany the Ennis scenses -- especially the ones with Cassie?


Sunflower79

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2006, 03:40 PM »
Linda Ronstadt Lyrics
Song: It's So Easy Lyrics Linda Ronstadt


"It's so easy to fall in love
It's so easy to fall in love
People tell me love's for fools
Here I go breaking all the rules"

Yeah, it is interesting,..about falling in love..and yes Cassie did fall in love with him, and at the same time Ennis really didn't love her..good point about the songs with Cassie and Ennis..Cassie in love and hopefull, and Ennis in love with Jack


Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2006, 03:43 PM »
Linda Ronstadt Lyrics
Song: It's So Easy Lyrics Linda Ronstadt


"It's so easy to fall in love
It's so easy to fall in love
People tell me love's for fools
Here I go breaking all the rules"

Yeah, it is interesting,..about falling in love..and yes Cassie did fall in love with him, and at the same time Ennis really didn't love her..good point about the songs with Cassie and Ennis..Cassie in love and hopefull, and Ennis in love with Jack




So ironic.  And so sad.

Songs say a lot in BBM.  They add subtle commentary, and add remarkable depth by pointing the way to multiple meanings and interpretations.


Offline welshwitch

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2006, 03:46 PM »
Maybe this is all wrong, but I wonder about Jack's line, "Doubt there's a filly can throw me". He's so confident of his own abilities at that point ( and hence, to me, so young), then later he's "thrown" by his love for Ennis. He's also, of course, thrown by the bulls - as if Jack is never going to get to any kind of stability, as indeed he doesn't.

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2006, 03:48 PM »
another line was their conversation about the pentecost in wich jack tell him "When folks like you and me would go straight to hell" and he answered "speak for yourself you may be a sinner but i ain't got the oppurnity" i think that with this line Ennis told Jack that he was virgin

I was just going to post about this one - but I got a slightly different meaning out of it, Carlos. I saw it as Ennis flirting with Jack - and of course we all know that he got the opportunity (to be a sinner) a few hours later.....


yup i know they were flirting also  ;)
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2006, 04:01 PM »
Maybe this is all wrong, but I wonder about Jack's line, "Doubt there's a filly can throw me". He's so confident of his own abilities at that point ( and hence, to me, so young), then later he's "thrown" by his love for Ennis. He's also, of course, thrown by the bulls - as if Jack is never going to get to any kind of stability, as indeed he doesn't.

Well, there is that strange look on Ennis's face immediately after the boast from Jack.  Makes me wonder if it is, in fact, what you had just stated...


Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2006, 05:23 PM »
the song that Jack and Lurren dance too..(looked it up and found the words) It talks about being in love..and how Jack and Lurreen are supposed to be in love and all..but maybe its talking about Ennis and Jacks love for each other..and it speaks about thier relationship..being lonely, being in love, is going to work, we will be there for each other..when at first glance it would be seem that Jack and Lurreen are in love and all..but I am thinking the song represents Jack's and Ennis love for each other..



Mary McBride Lyrics (http://www.stlyrics.com/b/brokebackmountain.htm)
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

No one else, can’t you see?
No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.

I know sometimes you felt so lonely
I know you felt so sad and blue
But this time, you know I’m the only
Love for you that’s coming through
With everything I say and do

No one’s gonna love you like me
No one, no one.
No one, no one.


Jack was definitely thinking of Ennis, but I think the lyrics do apply to Lureen and Jack too. No-one's gonna love Ennis like Jack, and viceversa, but the reality is that Ennis isn't there, as far as Jack kmows, he's lost him forever. So he's got a choice of either pining for Ennis, whilst having to resort to chatting up (and being humilliated by) the likes of Jimbo :X, or maybe taking a chance on Lureen, who clearly adores him from the off, her dad's loaded, and she's "the only love that's coming through" for Jack at that time.Like another song says, "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with". Just my take on it :)
(OT: that scene is shot so cleverly, just before the pic that tpe posted, it looks like they're about to kiss (Lureen is silently screaming at him to kiss her!)

then you see the back of Lureen's head, and then when you expect to see them kissing, instead you see that heartbreaking shot of Jack that tpe posted, wishing to God it was Ennis he was holding, and trying to accept it never would be :\'( That was one of the moments that really got me from the first time I watched  :\'(
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline ethan

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2006, 05:41 PM »
Reading every post makes my heart ache. I don't think there will ever be one that fills the love of Ennis and Jack. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2006, 06:16 PM »
Jack was definitely thinking of Ennis, but I think the lyrics do apply to Lureen and Jack too. No-one's gonna love Ennis like Jack, and viceversa, but the reality is that Ennis isn't there, as far as Jack kmows, he's lost him forever. So he's got a choice of either pining for Ennis, whilst having to resort to chatting up (and being humilliated by) the likes of Jimbo :X, or maybe taking a chance on Lureen, who clearly adores him from the off, her dad's loaded, and she's "the only love that's coming through" for Jack at that time.Like another song says, "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with". Just my take on it :)
(OT: that scene is shot so cleverly, just before the pic that tpe posted, it looks like they're about to kiss (Lureen is silently screaming at him to kiss her!)

then you see the back of Lureen's head, and then when you expect to see them kissing, instead you see that heartbreaking shot of Jack that tpe posted, wishing to God it was Ennis he was holding, and trying to accept it never would be :\'( That was one of the moments that really got me from the first time I watched  :\'(

I most certainly agree about this also applying to Lureeen and Jack.  It is what makes such double meanings so poigniant.  We see two realities at play.  They are completely separate, and yet they coalesce by the magic and complexity of the human sensibility to see more than what is seemingly there.

As Ethan has said, it makes our hearts ache.


 



Offline chameau

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2006, 06:52 PM »
Jack:  ''Tell you what… truth is, sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it… ''  :-[ :-\\ :\'(

Ennis I love you?
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline Valandil Eluch

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2006, 07:18 PM »
Jack:  ''Tell you what… truth is, sometime I miss you so much I can hardly stand it… ''  :-[ :-\\ :\'(

Ennis I love you?

thanks!!!!! at last someone thinks like me!!! you know it is the best way to say i love you without the proper words!!!
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

Offline LuvJackNasty

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2006, 08:01 PM »
tpe, regarding a love that will never grow old. I noticed this myself after first buying the soundtrack and listening to the song properly. I still wonder the true meaning of the words, i guess its just one of those things that is meant to be ambiguous, and you draw your own conclusions from it, perhaps it could depend on what feelings you want to feel on hearing it. I have found it far too upsetting to dwell on the second meaning (although it does creep in fromn time to time  :\'(). I tell myself it must be a celebration of their love, like you say, a love that will never die, otherwise i'd probably go fully crazy instead of being only halfway there  ^*()

Thanks aimi15.  Yes, I would prefer the first meaning -- that their love will forever stay young.   But that song also gives a strong sense of irony to the scene when he is crying on his way to Mexico.  If we juxtapose this with the double meaning of a life of love cut short, it becomes a double sarcasm too painful to bear.

The fact that Jack never fully lived a life of love with anybody gives his short life and immediacy that I am sure Ennis appreciated in the end.  Jack never grew old in the peace and security of that love he craved for.  It was his fate to be cut down in his prime.  But even as he died too soon, I believe he still had within him that same love inebriated with the spirit of his youth, his unflagging idealism. In this sense, his life and death are both memorials to the beauty and power of both interpretations.



 :\'(

Beautiful insights everyone!
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline stacp

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Re: Double Meanings in BBM Lines
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2006, 08:19 PM »
This is a great thread!  What about Jack's line at the end about "the rancher's wife."  He pretends to be talking about a woman (presumably LaShawn), but he's really talking about Randall.  I think Jack is lying to Ennis here about the gender of the person 1) to spare Ennis' feelings and 2) to keep up the charade of them really being interested in women.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 07:05 AM by stacp »