Author Topic: Flashback scene - spoiler  (Read 64131 times)

Offline Rickfreitas

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Flashback scene - spoiler
« on: Jan 12, 2006, 07:51 AM »
Hi! I just saw the movie yesterday and loved it, of course. But I have a question. You won't believe but I received an important call on my cell phone, just at the moment Ennis and Jack are having their final discussion, when Ennis tells Jacks he wouldn't make it in August, and they would only see each other in November. My question is: there is a little flashback at the end of the discussion, isn't it? My two friends that saw the movie with me kept saying it was a very tender scene but I missed it!!! Could you tell me what does that flashback scene shows? (I can't wait to see BBM again!).

« Last Edit: Jan 12, 2006, 08:38 AM by tpe »

Offline tpe

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Re: Flashback scene - spoiler
« Reply #1 on: Jan 12, 2006, 08:49 AM »
Hi! I just saw the movie yesterday and loved it, of course. But I have a question. You won't believe but I received an important call on my cell phone, just at the moment Ennis and Jack are having their final discussion, when Ennis tells Jacks he wouldn't make it in August, and they would only see each other in November. My question is: there is a little flashback at the end of the discussion, isn't it? My two friends that saw the movie with me kept saying it was a very tender scene but I missed it!!! Could you tell me what does that flashback scene shows? (I can't wait to see BBM again!).



Hello Rickfreitas, and welcome!

It is a pity that you missed this most beautiful of scenes, as a number of us here consider it the very heart and soul of the entire movie.

A thread has actually been devoted to this scene.  Under the 'Your Review and Thought' section of the forum, there is a thread entitled '...and sing to me...'  Do look at this thread and post any comments.  We would love to hear from you. :)

The entire scene is a flashback to their first summer on Brokeback Mountain.  In the original story says that what Jack remembered and craved in a way was the memory of that first summer when Ennis hugged him from behind -- a hug that was both drowsy, sexless, and (in my opinion) TIMELESS.  Jack seemed to doze off in Ennis' arms, and Ennis uses a childhood phrase gleaned from his mother when he was young.  I paraphrase Ennis as follows: (To jack) You're sleeping on your feet like a horse, as my mother used to say...and sing to me (here Ennis hums a half-forgotten melody from childhood)...gotta go...see you in the morning...

This scene is priceless more for what is left unsaid.  The actions of the two characters in this scene are most beautifully done by both Ledger/Ennis and Gyllenhaal/Jack.  Jack's especially, since in a way, this is his true final scene.  The memory of this scene stays with you like a faded but still perceptible fragrance -- even days after viewing the movie.  It touches the heart and soul.

I hope you get to see the movie again on the big screen -- even if only to see this scene enacted in full!  :)
« Last Edit: Jan 12, 2006, 08:52 AM by tpe »

Offline quentin751

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flashback scene
« Reply #2 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:46 PM »
hey:)
Today its the second time i see this movie in paris...And ive noticed a peculair scene today: whenenis and jack see each other for the last time and argue then suddenly there is a flasback where we see both of them up in front of a camp-fire, Enis holding Jack for the first time. Then back to the present time with Jack's face watching Enis leaving in his car...
On the 1st time i thought the scene was the following : they argued then calmed down in front of the fire, but today i noticed Jack's moustache away..Anyway i found this flashback weird, a brutal cut with the scene before...

Offline Toadily

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #3 on: Feb 07, 2006, 03:56 PM »
It's brutal, I almost can't watch the flashback after the pain of the prevous scene.  But that's the genius of it.  We really *feel* the loss after that.
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Offline TJ

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #4 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:00 PM »
In the movie, that particular "flashback scene" happens while Jack is still at the last location after Ennis drives off in his pickup truck.

In the stand-alone paperback book, there is a triple space between the lines "Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved"  and "What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand . . ." That triple spacing implies that time has passed between the two scenes.

But, I believe that whole flashback with Jack Twist remembers is not even in Wyoming at all. IMO, the book's scene opens with this paragraph before the flashback:


Quote
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

And this paragraph is after the flashback:

Quote
Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. Let be, let be.

I say the "Let be, let be" words show that Jack decides to find a way to quit Ennis who will never agree to them living together. Jack had been chasing after Ennis all over the mountains of Wyoming and he at or about 39 years of age, decided to move on.
(Ennis) is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream . . . lets a panel of the dream slide forward . . . it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Offline kcristob

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #5 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:23 PM »
And only Ang Lee could have captured so perfectly without words - the meaning of the words of the story.  It did help me to read the story after I saw the movie (didn't know about it before) -- but I GOT IT!  That somehow that flashback was the epitome of their relationship.  What a brilliant film.

Offline stephan

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #6 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:25 PM »
hey:)

On the 1st time i thought the scene was the following : they argued then calmed down in front of the fire, but today i noticed Jack's moustache away..Anyway i found this flashback weird, a brutal cut with the scene before...

Hey quentin751, I haven't read the story, and I think I don't need to read the story to interpret the scene. I like to imagine that after Ennis is crying so badly, there is a reconciliation that we don't see. The reconciliation is so wonderful that it is like the first summer on the mountain in 1963. So the flashback is a substitute. Ennis goes away like in 1963, but this time Jack knows he will never have a ranch with just the two of them living there.
Just my interpretation. Stephan

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #7 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:32 PM »
hey:)

On the 1st time i thought the scene was the following : they argued then calmed down in front of the fire, but today i noticed Jack's moustache away..Anyway i found this flashback weird, a brutal cut with the scene before...

Hey quentin751, I haven't read the story, and I think I don't need to read the story to interpret the scene. I like to imagine that after Ennis is crying so badly, there is a reconciliation that we don't see. The reconciliation is so wonderful that it is like the first summer on the mountain in 1963. So the flashback is a substitute. Ennis goes away like in 1963, but this time Jack knows he will never have a ranch with just the two of them living there.
Just my interpretation. Stephan

:'( :'( :'(
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline stephan

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #8 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:39 PM »

Just my interpretation. Stephan

:'( :'( :'(
Quote

Pardon me, Cowboy  :'( I cannot believe that the last parting was a parting in despair for either Jack or Ennis. They were inseparable ! Jack and Ennis 4ever ! Why else tell the story ?

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #9 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:43 PM »
I don't think it was a last parting either. All Jack had to do was look at Ennis or let Ennis give Jack the impression he wanted a life together, Jack would have made Riverton in 10 hours. That crushing scene when Jack has driven all that way, makes me cry, here I go again, right now. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline stephan

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #10 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:46 PM »
I don't think it was a last parting either. All Jack had to do was look at Ennis or let Ennis give Jack the impression he wanted a life together, Jack would have made Riverton in 10 hours. That crushing scene when Jack has driven all that way, makes me cry, here I go again, right now. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I'm crying too now, but smiling at the same time  :) :) Jack + Ennis 4ever.

Offline camom

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #11 on: Feb 07, 2006, 04:56 PM »
I don't believe it was a final parting, either.  What I think "let be, let be" means in the story is that Jack has realized how things will be with Ennis--it will always be fleeting moments, and he has to come to terms with that, which he does by also seeking out other relationships.  I don't think it means that he has let go of his love for Ennis, or given up on Ennis, just that he understands what their relationship is.  In other words, it's his version of "if you can't fix it, you got to stand it." 

The previous paragraph also mentions "nothing ended, nothing resolved" between them.  I think Jack just had to resolve things for himself. 

camom

Offline tpe

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #12 on: Feb 07, 2006, 05:04 PM »
For me, this is the heart and soul of the entire movie.  It is pure art and pure beauty.  There is no such like in all of cinema.

Offline camom

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #13 on: Feb 07, 2006, 06:19 PM »
For me, this is the heart and soul of the entire movie.  It is pure art and pure beauty.  There is no such like in all of cinema.

And what an amazing way of letting us visualize what's in the story.  Every time I see this movie, I walk out of the theater thinking, "Now when can I go see it again?"

camom

Offline manila_rocks

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #14 on: Feb 08, 2006, 01:41 AM »
I could not agree more.   You have removed the words from my mouth.

Offline justlikethisalways

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #15 on: Feb 08, 2006, 02:46 AM »
For me, this is the heart and soul of the entire movie.  It is pure art and pure beauty.  There is no such like in all of cinema.

Couldn't have said it better, tpe. Thanks for putting my feelings into words.  :'(

Offline christie wood

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #16 on: Feb 08, 2006, 09:37 AM »
It IS the heart and soul of the film, absolutely.  Ennis holding Jack in their favourite place, Ennis is so happy there with Jack.  It says so much without words.....so beautifully filmed, it absolutely floors me every time I see that scene.  I believe that this scene encapsulates everything about how they felt about each other, but mainly how Ennis felt about Jack, because Ennis found it so hard to express how he felt, so to see him, holding Jack, speaking softly to him (I adore his voice here.  It is so beautiful, low, soft, tender and loving), it says everything and we KNOW he loved Jack in the same way Jack loved him.  It also goes some way to explain why Ennis reacted the way he did when they had to leave Brokeback early (using the excuse of the money), and why he breaks down in the alley way.  He never wants to leave Brokeback, because by leaving Brokeback, he's leaving Jack, the love of his life. 

To cut this scene into the final scene of them together, illustrates so clearly that Jack loved Ennis then, and he will love him now, whatever happens.  He will take from Ennis anything that he gives him, no matter how small.  This is how I see the whole scene making sense.
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Offline tpe

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #17 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:16 AM »
Your posts are starting to make me cry at the office!

The poetry of it all.  The reaching out into distant memory: Jack remembering that perfect moment so close to the end of his life; Ennis remembering his mother as he wraps his arms protectively around Jack and sings to him a half-forgotten lullaby.  The music dipping into the poigniant minor key right before the beautiful guitar solo joins in at the dead center of this wonderful scene.  Jack's drooping Head.  Ennis's hand tracing tender arcs on Jack's collar.  The cold of the mountain surrounding two souls one and inseparable.

Is there a human being so hard of heart as not to be moved by this scene?  It tugs at the foundation -- the very heartstrings -- of one's soul.
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2006, 10:21 AM by tpe »

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #18 on: Feb 08, 2006, 10:19 AM »
Your posts are starting to make me cry at the office!

The poetry of it all.  The reaching out into distant memory: Jack remembering that perfect moment so close to the end of his life; Ennis remembering his mother as he wraps his arms protectively around Jack and sings to him a half-forgotten lullaby.  The music dipping into the poigniant minor key right before the beautiful guitar solo joins in at the dead center of this wonderful scene.  Jack's drooping Head.  Ennis's hand tracing tender arcs on Jack's collar.  The cold of the mountain surrounding two souls one and inseparable.

Is there a human being so hard of heart as not to be moved by this scene?  It tugs at the foundation -- the very heartstrings -- of one's soul.

As if I wasn't already choked up at work..here I go, hey chameau - I need my kleenex box back... :'( :'( :'(
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2006, 10:21 AM by tpe »
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Offline justlikethisalways

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #19 on: Feb 08, 2006, 12:30 PM »
Speaking of the "heart" of the movie -- when Ennis wraps his arm around Jack and grasps his collar, his (Ennis) right hand seems to hover close to Jack's heart...probably unintentional but a nice visual touch.

The poetry of it all.  The reaching out into distant memory: Jack remembering that perfect moment so close to the end of his life; Ennis remembering his mother as he wraps his arms protectively around Jack and sings to him a half-forgotten lullaby.  The music dipping into the poigniant minor key right before the beautiful guitar solo joins in at the dead center of this wonderful scene.  Jack's drooping Head.  Ennis's hand tracing tender arcs on Jack's collar.  The cold of the mountain surrounding two souls one and inseparable.

Is there a human being so hard of heart as not to be moved by this scene?  It tugs at the foundation -- the very heartstrings -- of one's soul.
That mother/child connection is so powerful. A mother's love, the purest love there is. Ennis' mom was probably the only person who ever truly loved him, until he met Jack. The fact that Ennis reaches so deep down and in a rare moment of emotional surrender, shares this love with Jack, makes this scene all the more poignant. This is a totally different Ennis, soft and sweet, even his voice. The Ennis that Jack could never quit and would spend the next 20 years trying to reawaken.

Kleenex time... :'(

Offline tpe

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #20 on: Feb 08, 2006, 12:38 PM »
Speaking of the "heart" of the movie -- when Ennis wraps his arm around Jack and grasps his collar, his (Ennis) right hand seems to hover close to Jack's heart...probably unintentional but a nice visual touch.

That mother/child connection is so powerful. A mother's love, the purest love there is. Ennis' mom was probably the only person who ever truly loved him, until he met Jack. The fact that Ennis reaches so deep down and in a rare moment of emotional surrender, shares this love with Jack, makes this scene all the more poignant. This is a totally different Ennis, soft and sweet, even his voice. The Ennis that Jack could never quit and would spend the next 20 years trying to reawaken.

Kleenex time... :'(

justlikethisalways, do you remember Jack/Gyllenhaal moan ever so softly when Ennis/Ledger embarces him?  It is the sound of a child completely contented and at peace with the beloved.

Offline stephan

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #21 on: Feb 08, 2006, 04:11 PM »
For me, this is the heart and soul of the entire movie.  It is pure art and pure beauty.  There is no such like in all of cinema.

Absolutely ! After seeing for the 4th time, this scene is still the one that moves me the most. Today the tears actually ran.
I also noticed that the sequence is : Ennis crumples to the ground, Jack is holding him, then Ennis grabs onto him ; jump to flashback which is Ennis cuddling Jack, singing in his ear, then telling him "I gotta go, see you in the morning." Therefore, they decide after their argument that they're still together. Stephan

Offline chameau

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #22 on: Feb 08, 2006, 07:04 PM »
For me, this is the heart and soul of the entire movie.  It is pure art and pure beauty.  There is no such like in all of cinema.

Absolutely ! After seeing for the 4th time, this scene is still the one that moves me the most. Today the tears actually ran.
I also noticed that the sequence is : Ennis crumples to the ground, Jack is holding him, then Ennis grabs onto him ; jump to flashback which is Ennis cuddling Jack, singing in his ear, then telling him "I gotta go, see you in the morning." Therefore, they decide after their argument that they're still together. Stephan

Tissues please,  :'(  I'm at work!  :'( :'(
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Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #23 on: Feb 08, 2006, 07:55 PM »
Here Chameau - take a pack of mine buddy, knowing your crying is making me cry. :'(
You were goin' up there to go fishin'....NO SHIT! GIMME SEX!

Offline christie wood

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #24 on: Feb 09, 2006, 04:05 AM »
Tpe, I heard the moan from Jack too!  It's that kind of contented sigh you make when you are so happy to be where you are...in the arms of the person you love most in the world.  God, I love this scene soooo much.  Ennis is just so happy with Jack, and with himself, here.  That's why it's such a shock to his system when they have to leave early. 
 :'( :'( :'(
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Offline justlikethisalways

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #25 on: Feb 09, 2006, 04:34 AM »
do you remember Jack/Gyllenhaal moan ever so softly when Ennis/Ledger embarces him?  It is the sound of a child completely contented and at peace with the beloved.

Wow! No, I did not notice that!!! :o  Prob'ly just as well though, might've totally lost it in the theater...especially considering the next scene with Jack's anguished face...that would've killed me.

Oh well, one more thing to add to my list of things to watch/listen for next time...

Offline christie wood

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #26 on: Feb 09, 2006, 04:52 AM »
I know!  There seems to be a million things in each scene that we discover each time we see this beautiful film. And this scene is no exception.  Ennis gently rocking Jack while holding him close, Jack so content with his lover, moans with pure contentment and snuggles into Ennis's arm.   :'( :'( I'm going for my 3rd viewing tonight.....can't wait...although I know my heart will start pounding the minute I hear that music, and see Ennis and Jack.....
"Look at my boots, old and dingy" - Heath Ledger

Offline Cowboy Cody

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #27 on: Feb 09, 2006, 10:19 AM »
I know!  There seems to be a million things in each scene that we discover each time we see this beautiful film. And this scene is no exception.  Ennis gently rocking Jack while holding him close, Jack so content with his lover, moans with pure contentment and snuggles into Ennis's arm.   :'( :'( I'm going for my 3rd viewing tonight.....can't wait...although I know my heart will start pounding the minute I hear that music, and see Ennis and Jack.....


Don't forgot our giant box of BBM tissues Christie!
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Offline christie wood

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #28 on: Feb 09, 2006, 11:04 AM »
Thank you so much cowboy cody, I know I'll need them.  But there's nothing I can do about it....staying dry-eyed watching this film is not an option!

Is it just me, but when the film begins, hearing the music start up, just sends me...... :'(
"Look at my boots, old and dingy" - Heath Ledger

Offline chameau

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Re: flashback scene
« Reply #29 on: Feb 09, 2006, 01:27 PM »
Quote
Is it just me, but when the film begins, hearing the music start up, just sends me......


Same here  :'(
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault