Author Topic: Are Heath & Jake the ones you have in mind as Ennis & Jack? --possible spoiler--  (Read 29131 times)

Offline brokebackmountain

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I have kept thinking about this question for days. While I am reading the short story, I envision how in reality Ennis and Jack look like.

There is no doubt that Heath and Jack are beautiful to look at and their actings are excellent and certainly I am not complaining. As I read the story, I tried to pick up every details about them and envision how they look like and act apart from the movie. Somehow, Heath and Jake are not the ones I have in mind.

First - here are some details about Ennis and Jack from the story.

"At first glance Jack seemed fair enought with his curly hair and quick laugh, but for a small man he carried some weight in the haunch and his smile disclosed buckteeth, not pronounced enough to let him eat popcorn out of the neck of a jug, but noticeable."

"Ennis, high-arched nose and narrow face, was scruffy and a little cave-chested, balanced a small torso on long, caliper legs, possessed a muscular and supple body made for the horse and for fighting. His reflexes were uncommonly quick and he was farsighted enough to dislike reading anything except Hamley's saddle catalog."

Also, the passage at the beginning is one of my favorite.

"Ennis Del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft. He gets up, scratching the grey wedge of belly and pubic hair, shuffles to the gas burner, pours leftover coffee in a chipped enamel pan; the flame swathes it in blue. He turns on the tap and urinates in the sink, pulls on his shirt and jeans, his worn boots, stamping the heels against the floor to get them full on. The wind booms down the curved length of the trailer and under its roaring passage he can hear the scratching of fine gravel and sand. It could be bad on the highway with the horse trailer. He has to be packed and away from the place that morning. Again the ranch is on the market and they've shipped out the last of the horses, paid everybody off the day before, the owner saying, "Give em to the real estate shark, I'm out a here," dropping the keys in Ennis's hand. He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.

The stale coffee is boiling up but he catches it before it goes over the side, pours it into a stained cup and blows on the black liquid, lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong. The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies, leaves a temporary silence."

I wonder if Heath and Jake are the ones you would envision from reading the short story. The more I read the story, the more I don't want them to look like Heath and Jake. Strange, huh?
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Offline aries4118

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[i]Also, the passage at the beginning is one of my favorite.

"Ennis Del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft. He gets up, scratching the grey wedge of belly and pubic hair, shuffles to the gas burner, pours leftover coffee in a chipped enamel pan; the flame swathes it in blue. He turns on the tap and urinates in the sink, pulls on his shirt and jeans, his worn boots, stamping the heels against the floor to get them full on. The wind booms down the curved length of the trailer and under its roaring passage he can hear the scratching of fine gravel and sand. It could be bad on the highway with the horse trailer. He has to be packed and away from the place that morning. Again the ranch is on the market and they've shipped out the last of the horses, paid everybody off the day before, the owner saying, "Give em to the real estate shark, I'm out a here," dropping the keys in Ennis's hand. He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.

The stale coffee is boiling up but he catches it before it goes over the side, pours it into a stained cup and blows on the black liquid, lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong. The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies, leaves a temporary silence."
[/i][/color]


Is this part in the short story??? I don't remember it. Please explain.
 
 
 

Offline brokebackmountain

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Is this part in the short story??? I don't remember it. Please explain.
 

Hey, aries4118.

It is the opening passage from Annie Proulx’s book-version of BBM. It did not appear in the version of The New Yorker.
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Offline jimnick

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[i]Also, the passage at the beginning is one of my favorite.

"Ennis Del Mar wakes before five, wind rocking the trailer, hissing in around the aluminum door and window frames. The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft. He gets up, scratching the grey wedge of belly and pubic hair, shuffles to the gas burner, pours leftover coffee in a chipped enamel pan; the flame swathes it in blue. He turns on the tap and urinates in the sink, pulls on his shirt and jeans, his worn boots, stamping the heels against the floor to get them full on. The wind booms down the curved length of the trailer and under its roaring passage he can hear the scratching of fine gravel and sand. It could be bad on the highway with the horse trailer. He has to be packed and away from the place that morning. Again the ranch is on the market and they've shipped out the last of the horses, paid everybody off the day before, the owner saying, "Give em to the real estate shark, I'm out a here," dropping the keys in Ennis's hand. He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.

The stale coffee is boiling up but he catches it before it goes over the side, pours it into a stained cup and blows on the black liquid, lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong. The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies, leaves a temporary silence."
[/i][/color]


Is this part in the short story??? I don't remember it. Please explain.
 
 It's the beginning of the short story...

Jim
 


Offline aries4118

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Thanks! I never knew about this! I feel another purchase coming...

T



Offline tpe

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Ledger did seem to embody the character of Ennis most convincingly.  His acting is indeed a revelation, as his portrayal did add much depth to my interpretation of the character in the original story.  Proulx pretty much said that Ledger got into the character more than she ever did.

As for Gyllenhaal, I share Proulx's reaction.  Gyllenhaal injected a thoroughly new interpretation to the character of Jack.  As Proulx pretty much said, Gyllenhaal is more beautiful than the Jack Twist she had envisioned.  This is not Gyllenhaal's fault.  But what I come to appreciate very much is the huge amount of sensitivity he overlaid onto the character of Jack.  I think his interpretation is as remarkable as Ledger's -- in the sense that he had to reinvent things on his own.

Yes, whenever I think of Ennis and Jack nowadays, I think of Ledger and Gyllenhaal.  Their physical appearances are NOT the primary reason.  It is the splendid acting that has captured my imagination.  Proulx has been magnificently served by these two young actors.
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2006, 09:19 AM by tpe »

tweric

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I saw the movie first, and then read the story. One thing about 'story Jack' is that he is "small". Jake G. is just too tall (and yes, too beautiful). When I first saw 'movie Jack', I had a hard time accepting him in the very beginning.

Maybe last week, I saw 'Elijah Wood' was on some late night show, and it just hit me! -- small, carry some weight in the haunch,......

Offline ethan

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I saw the movie first, and then read the story. One thing about 'story Jack' is that he is "small". Jake G. is just too tall (and yes, too beautiful). When I first saw 'movie Jack', I had a hard time accepting him in the very beginning.

Maybe last week, I saw 'Elijah Wood' was on some late night show, and it just hit me! -- small, carry some weight in the haunch,......

I saw the movie first and then read the story. Honestly, Jake and Heath aren't exactly what I have imagined from the story in terms of physical appearances.

Elijah Wood - he will be the hobbits for the rest of my life. See what a movie can do to someone.
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Offline MidtownFreak

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Ledger did seem to embody the character of Ennis most convincingly.  His acting is indeed a revelation, as his portrayal did add much depth to my interpretation of the character in the original story.  Proulx pretty much said that Ledger got into the character more than she ever did.

As for Gyllenhaal, I share Proulx's reaction.  Gyllenhaal injected a thoroughly new interpretation to the character of Jack.  As Proulx pretty much said, Gyllenhaal is more beautiful than the Jack Twist she had envisioned.  This is not Gyllenhaal's fault.  But what I come to appreciate very much is the huge amount of sensitivity he overlaid onto the character of Jack.  I think his interpretation is as remarkable as Ledger's -- in the sense that he had to reinvent things on his own.

Yes, whenever I think of Ennis and Jack nowadays, I think of Ledger and Gyllenhaal.  Their physical appearances are NOT the primary reason.  It is the splendid acting that has captured my imagination.  Proulx has been magnificently served by these two young actors.

LMAO, they had to work around his 'beauty'. I agree with what you said tpe, Heath's potrayal was way too real to even attempt to replace him in my imagination. Jake's potrayal added more of a "young, doesn't care about consequences, rebel-type feel" to Jack's character. This to me is was great, because of the sharper personality contrast between Ennis and Jack. Otherwise, it would be a movie about.. well, pretty much two same people with same tastes. Not as fun :/
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Offline francis.shim

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Howdy...

Hmmm... well this posting is coming from a hard-of-hearing and visually impaired individual who saw the movie first and only once and then quickly read the original short story by Annie Proulx.  I am planning to see BBM again, but you know it is just so powerful that it is nice to simply make friends with other people like me who are just plainly addicted to the story.  Anyway, take my opinion in that context.

I have to admit once Heath and Jake were on screen, their images pretty much congealed what the characters would look like to me; however, as I watched the movie ... if I may be so bold, I have to say that Heath was just *SO* perfect as Ennis... the squint, the taciturness, even his mouth hardly moves when he talked... everything about Heath as Ennis was pure Ennis.  Even the accent and the silent anger... all the reactions lent themselves to Heath's lankiness to complete the total conviction that he was Ennis.

Jake as Jack was just superb, but there is Jake's pretty boy image that competed with the Annie Proulx's "little heavy in the haunch" Jack... now, I am not saying I am disappointed, but it was a difference; however, it still came off very well.... both YOUNG Jack and YOUNG Ennis are supposed to be in their virile and most good-looking prime of their lives... and to some extent when your hormones are rushing well, handsomeness is kind of in the eye of the beholder and in the arms of circumstances.  Besides, Jack Twist later got his "buck teeth" filed down in later life so with the aging makeup and the right clothes, Jake assumed the Jack Twist role just fine.

Now who would I have in mind... well, since I have a most wonderful, strong, silent, stubborn fellow that I married and I have dark hair... well, I think you can figure who I cast into those roles while I was watching the movie (the best that I could) and reading the story.... ;-D

Frank

greenfrog

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I'm reviving an old topic.

I don't know what I invisioned Jack and Ennis to look like when I first read BBM, but I think Jake and Heath created them perfectly.

Now I don't think I could possibly picture anyone else playing Jack and Ennis. It just wouldn't be the same.

Offline NoReins

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Well done, greenfrog, for reviving this one....

I saw the movie first and then read the SS (the day after) so I didn't know how Annie had described Jack and Ennis initially...which meant that I didn't think about it while watching. I did chuckle a little when I read the description of Jack as clearly Jake G is not what you would picture when you read "short, curly haired, buck-toothed" ??? But....I was so captivated by both Heath and Jake's performances in the movie...so convinced that they were Ennis and Jack....that when I read the story, I saw them, rather than what Annie had pictured. I still do today when reading fanfics.

If the power of an actor's performance can be measured by how much they inhabit the role in the eyes of the viewer - how impossible they make it for the viewer to ever see anyone else in that part - then Heath and Jake gave two of the most powerful performances I have ever seen on the big screen.
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This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

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Offline tpe

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To millions of people now and in the future, they ARE and forever will be Ennis and Jack.


Offline aintfoolin

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No one could do justice to the role of Ennis like Ledger did, He IS Ennis del Mar. And Jake broght Jack Twist alive, No , I can't imagine anyone else in these roles other than these two superb actors. Shit, I could'nt tell they were acting.
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline Marj

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http://youtube.com/watch?v=CuYD2cwMbpw

Matt Damon could be in brokeback Mountain, listen to him talking at the end  ;)
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Offline lamusica

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The very fact that this forum exists proves the quality and reality of the work of both Jake and Heath.  They embodied Jack and Ennis as no one else ever could have.  They BECAME the characters, and that's what the fans resonated to.  That's why we can't separate them, and why Heath's death was so very painful to us all.  While we all know he was not Ennis, we always believed he was because of his convinecability.  He had us from the very first scene.  He lost his Heathness, put on his Ennisness, and maintained it through to the end of the film.  I have never been affected by any acting in any film as I have by these two superb actors, and I guarantee I will never forget a word, a look, a nuance.  What a ride this has been!
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Offline Marj

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I totally agree, they could never be replaced..for me they are the characters...i was effected by this movie just as you were.
But...that's because we only saw the movie with Heath and Jake...you never know if anyone else had toke the part..what would the movie had been like...
I'm not saying that they could be replaced, i'm just saying we never know if anyone else took the part, the movie had became so succesfull as it is now.

No offence just seeing it in more than one way
Jack Twist: "...so what we got now is Brokeback Mountain...I wish I knew how to quit you."

Offline tpe

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The very fact that this forum exists proves the quality and reality of the work of both Jake and Heath.  They embodied Jack and Ennis as no one else ever could have.  They BECAME the characters, and that's what the fans resonated to.  That's why we can't separate them, and why Heath's death was so very painful to us all.  While we all know he was not Ennis, we always believed he was because of his convinecability.  He had us from the very first scene.  He lost his Heathness, put on his Ennisness, and maintained it through to the end of the film.  I have never been affected by any acting in any film as I have by these two superb actors, and I guarantee I will never forget a word, a look, a nuance.  What a ride this has been!

Agreed.

I think that to those who did not know the story prior to watching the movie, Heath and Jake ARE the characters...

Offline Matt Nasty

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i havnt read the ss yet but i am going too at some point soon :),
to be honest i thik i will see them as i see them in the film but even in the film i dont see them as heath and jake i see ennis and jack they dont remind me all together of the actors, i suppose thats because emotionally i see ennis and jack as their own people so have started to see them physically as different people, obviously i can tell they are the actors (oh well sorry for my rubbish explenation lol, i think when i read the story even if it said jack and ennis had green skin with purple hair i would see the jack and ennis i am familiar with the ones who i care so much for... i hope i was understandable here, sorry if i wasnt

Offline tpe

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i havnt read the ss yet but i am going too at some point soon :),
to be honest i thik i will see them as i see them in the film but even in the film i dont see them as heath and jake i see ennis and jack they dont remind me all together of the actors, i suppose thats because emotionally i see ennis and jack as their own people so have started to see them physically as different people, obviously i can tell they are the actors (oh well sorry for my rubbish explenation lol, i think when i read the story even if it said jack and ennis had green skin with purple hair i would see the jack and ennis i am familiar with the ones who i care so much for... i hope i was understandable here, sorry if i wasnt

You will certainly find significant differences between the portrayals in the film and the ss itself -- especially with Jack. .  I would be curious to know your reaction once you have read the ss.  :)


Offline Matt Nasty

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You will certainly find significant differences between the portrayals in the film and the ss itself -- especially with Jack. .  I would be curious to know your reaction once you have read the ss.  :)


hmm im itching to find out myself

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You know, when I ever I watch BBM, I completely forget that it's Heath. Ennis comes so alive, becomes so real. Heath was absolutely brilliant in this role.

Offline myprivatejack

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For me it's a fairly different situation,because I must confess I knew neither Heath nor Jake before BBM.For this reason,their identification with the characters had been greater before my eyes; letting aside,of course,the fact that THEY REALLY ARE ENNIS AND JACK ,for they got giving life to these cowboys in a superb way.Nowadays,for me to some extent their characters are more real than themselves,even if it may sound strange; when I see a pic of a footage's rest,I'm not seeing the actors,but Ennis and Jack indeed.Surely for this,the grief for Heath's death has been greater somehow,because it has been as if both Heath and Ennis had left us.I know this can be a little surrealistic,but it's what I feel...
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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Offline Matt Nasty

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For me it's a fairly different situation,because I must confess I knew neither Heath nor Jake before BBM.For this reason,their identification with the characters had been greater before my eyes; letting aside,of course,the fact that THEY REALLY ARE ENNIS AND JACK ,for they got giving life to these cowboys in a superb way.Nowadays,for me to some extent their characters are more real than themselves,even if it may sound strange; when I see a pic of a footage's rest,I'm not seeing the actors,but Ennis and Jack indeed.Surely for this,the grief for Heath's death has been greater somehow,because it has been as if both Heath and Ennis had left us.I know this can be a little surrealistic,but it's what I feel...

me too i see ennis and jack as well ennis and jack not heath and jake. but i think when i read the ss i will see ennis and jack as they were in the film even if that is not heath and jake.
sorry ive probably just confused every one :P

Offline myprivatejack

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me too i see ennis and jack as well ennis and jack not heath and jake. but i think when i read the ss i will see ennis and jack as they were in the film even if that is not heath and jake.
sorry ive probably just confused every one :P

You don't need to excuse yourself,Matt,because,in any case,confusion is on my mind much before... (^) I've already read the ss in Spanish translation,but for me there's no change in my appreciation;I keep on seeing Heath and Jake,even if they're not as they're defined there and even if I tried to imagine specially another Jack more similar,I got him in my mind,but I didn't like him as much.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline Matt Nasty

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You don't need to excuse yourself,Matt,because,in any case,confusion is on my mind much before... (^) I've already read the ss in Spanish translation,but for me there's no change in my appreciation;I keep on seeing Heath and Jake,even if they're not as they're defined there and even if I tried to imagine specially another Jack more similar,I got him in my mind,but I didn't like him as much.
yer thats understandable

Offline tpe

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For me it's a fairly different situation,because I must confess I knew neither Heath nor Jake before BBM.For this reason,their identification with the characters had been greater before my eyes; letting aside,of course,the fact that THEY REALLY ARE ENNIS AND JACK ,for they got giving life to these cowboys in a superb way.Nowadays,for me to some extent their characters are more real than themselves,even if it may sound strange; when I see a pic of a footage's rest,I'm not seeing the actors,but Ennis and Jack indeed.Surely for this,the grief for Heath's death has been greater somehow,because it has been as if both Heath and Ennis had left us.I know this can be a little surrealistic,but it's what I feel...

The difference I think between them is that Heath fully embodied his role, whereas Jake created/remade his.  This is quite clear in the comments made by Proulx...

Offline Matt Nasty

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well i read the ss last night and despite the discriptions i still when it it said ennis i seen the ennis i know from the film and jack the jack i know from the film. i couldnt think of it anyother way. even though it was telling me jack was slightly hunched over a little over weight i just already have the idea of my jack although towards the ned i began to seperate the film story from the ss altogether i did enjoy the ss though i just didnt find it as powerful as the movie.

Offline tpe

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well i read the ss last night and despite the discriptions i still when it it said ennis i seen the ennis i know from the film and jack the jack i know from the film. i couldnt think of it anyother way. even though it was telling me jack was slightly hunched over a little over weight i just already have the idea of my jack although towards the ned i began to seperate the film story from the ss altogether i did enjoy the ss though i just didnt find it as powerful as the movie.

I think the very great difference is that in the ss, Jack was a much more shadowy character -- less emotive, except for the great passage of the Dozy Embrace.  I think Jake took this passage as a cue to create his version of Jack -- a version that surprised Proulx, as she herself admitted.  I suspect that initially, she wasn't so sure what to make of it.  But it was clear that Jake took the character and transformed it into something totally new, that it even surprised the author...


Offline Matt Nasty

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I think the very great difference is that in the ss, Jack was a much more shadowy character -- less emotive, except for the great passage of the Dozy Embrace.  I think Jake took this passage as a cue to create his version of Jack -- a version that surprised Proulx, as she herself admitted.  I suspect that initially, she wasn't so sure what to make of it.  But it was clear that Jake took the character and transformed it into something totally new, that it even surprised the author...



hmmm i liked jakes version better :)