Author Topic: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers  (Read 16988 times)

Offline *Froggy*

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Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« on: Jan 15, 2006, 02:15 PM »
Erm..just stole a great idea from IMDb! hehehe ;D

When Ennis comes back to the main camp after the snow storm and finds that Jack is packing...we have two different reactions from our boys. The IMDb thread focused on Jack being so calm. But in fact we have an angry Ennis as well.

Here was my reply on IMDb...possible spoilers:
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Maybe it is his (Jack's) way of coping. Ennis gets in a bad mood, whereas Jack pretends everything is cool...they are leaving so what?

When he goes to get "his" Ennis, and it turns into a fight...poor Jack wants to comfort Ennis...ends up stealing his shirt! Nah!!...ah love...(Jack was calm because he was) optimistic maybe but to steal the shirt, he knew that it was unlikely that they met again!
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Offline Toadily

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #1 on: Jan 15, 2006, 02:26 PM »
I had a problem with that scene too cause Jack is so mellow.  although dramatically that may have been to set up the conflict and the fight so we have the blood on the shirts (if I recall right, Jack's calm isn't in the short story, but Ennis's angst is...)  But yes, I think Jack thought they would do this next summer, plus he is just hte more optimistic of the two.  Ennis thought that was that, and note it's Jack who finds him again.
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Offline jimnick

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #2 on: Jan 15, 2006, 04:46 PM »
I think we should all, everyone single one of us, send one of our shitrts to Jake Gyllenhaal.

Jim

Offline natalia

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #3 on: Jan 15, 2006, 05:13 PM »
I think that both Jack and Ennis' reactions were on the mark... this is the Jack before illicit fishing trips, complicated lies and bitter disappointment. He's still a little boy in some ways and is sure he'll see Ennis again and I'm guessing that's why he's so calm at their parting, whereas Ennis has already had somewhat of a hardknock life and understands that things won't be that simple. As usual, he expresses his emotions through violence. I guess what I'm saying here is that although it seems kinda like a role reversal (Jack mellow about having to leave Ennis, Ennis being the more emotional one) it somehow seems to work.

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Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #4 on: Jan 15, 2006, 07:19 PM »
Good question.

I think Jack was always a bit accepting of what came his way.  Remember the scene when Aguirre tells him about his sick relative?  His response showed a level-headedness that is in keeping with his reaction to the order to bring the sheep down the mountain.

Also, remember the last words assigned to Jack in the original story.  After contemplating that the remembered magical embrace from Ennis on Brokeback that first summer was possibly the closest they had ever really gotten, Jack's parting words in the story were as follows:

Let be.  Let be.

Offline Liam56

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #5 on: Jan 16, 2006, 02:10 AM »
Quote:

I think Jack was always a bit accepting of what came his way.  Remember the scene when Aguirre tells him about his sick relative?  His response showed a level-headedness that is in keeping with his reaction to the order to bring the sheep down the mountain.

Also, remember the last words assigned to Jack in the original story.  After contemplating that the remembered magical embrace from Ennis on Brokeback that first summer was possibly the closest they had ever really gotten, Jack's parting words in the story were as follows:

Let be.  Let be.
Quote


I tend to agree with you, TPE.  Jack just accepted what came his way while Ennis dealt with emotions so often with anger.  Jack, as much as he wanted Ennis as a life-partner, never pushed it and just accepted that the situation would be as Ennis wanted it--a few scattered encounters during the course of every year. 

Both guys came from dysfunctional families.  You get quite a take on Ennis' father in the scene when he marched the boys down to the gulley to see that old gay man who was killed so brutally.  His siblings pretty much abandoned him.  Jack's father seemed like a tough bird with not a great deal of compassion, but his mother seemed tender and loving.  Maybe that is where Jack got his tools for resignation and acceptance.  Let be . . . let be. . .

Offline Apollonos

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Re: Leaving Brokeback Moutain - possible spoilers
« Reply #6 on: Jan 16, 2006, 06:31 AM »
Quote
When Ennis comes back to the main camp after the snow storm and finds that Jack is packing...we have two different reactions from our boys. The IMDb thread focused on Jack being so calm. But in fact we have an angry Ennis as well.

Keep in mind that Jack had more time to process the idea of leaving  a month early, whereas Ennis doesn't get the news until he comes riding into camp and sees Jack in the act of packing. I don't think it's surprising that Ennis reacts with surprise, anger, disappointment, and a whole cascade of negative emotions.

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I think we should all, everyone single one of us, send one of our shitrts to Jake Gyllenhaal.

Jim

ROTFLMAO!!! Great idea, Jim. I love it! I wonder what the media would do with that, once the word got out that Gyllenhaal is getting inundated with shirts sent by rabid <just kidding!> fans of BBM?
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2006, 06:49 AM by Apollonos »

Sunflower79

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Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2006, 07:53 AM »
I was just thinking about the first time that Ennis and Jack left the mountain..when Arguire told Jack that due to nasty weather they would have leave the mountain early. I was just wondering if maybe he was using the weather as an excuse to fire Jack and Ennis. Since it was obvious he didn't like them and since he caught them fooling around he wanted to get rid of them.
Because later when Jack comes back Aguire makes a reference to Jack and Ennis fooling around instead of watching the sheep..
What do you guys think..

balchy28

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2006, 07:56 AM »
I was thinking the same thing earlier! it's a possibility. I mean, obviously it could be because he didn't wanna lose money by his stock being damaged but it could have been cuz he didn't like the idea of Ennis and Jack doing what they were doing up there and wanted to get rid of them.

Good point Sunflower79!  :)

Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2006, 08:13 AM »
Yes, I thought the same thing.

Remember the look on Aguirre's face when he left Jack in the scene on 'chopping wood'?  It certainly did not look like trust or admiration.  You could tell that Jack was quite puzzled over that look.  And what are we to make of Jack's look when Aguirre points his binoculars on Ennis way up in the mountains?

Why was Jack so nonchalant about leaving Brokeback when he announced the news to Ennis while taking down the tent?  Could he have suspected something similar to what we are now speculating upon?  My gut reaction is: no.  Jack must have not yet known that Aguirre knew.  But his nonchalance puzzles me.  Perhaps the key to this nonchalance is his willingness to to take things in stride: 'Let be. Let be.'






Offline NoReins

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2006, 08:21 AM »
I dunno. I think that Jack maybe knew that Aguirre had seen them. When Aguirre looks through his binoculars up to where Ennis is, Jack then turns and looks behind him to the place where he and Ennis made love earlier. When he turns back to Aguirre, he has a worried/questioning look on his face and I think that the way that Aguirre looks at him confirms to Jack that they were seen.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aguirre made up a tale to get them off the mountain either. He knew they weren't doing their jobs properly, but he would also have felt that they were better than nothing - presumably bringing the sheep down early would cause him problems so he wouldn't do it just for the sake of it.

I'm also coming round to the possibility that Aguirre wasn't really that bothered about what the boys were doing up there, as long as they did their jobs at the same time. If he was really a raging homophobe then surely he would have said something to Jack the first time, rather than just giving him the news about his uncle then leaving again?
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Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2006, 08:29 AM »
I dunno. I think that Jack maybe knew that Aguirre had seen them. When Aguirre looks through his binoculars up to where Ennis is, Jack then turns and looks behind him to the place where he and Ennis made love earlier. When he turns back to Aguirre, he has a worried/questioning look on his face and I think that the way that Aguirre looks at him confirms to Jack that they were seen.

For what it's worth, I don't think Aguirre made up a tale to get them off the mountain either. He knew they weren't doing their jobs properly, but he would also have felt that they were better than nothing - presumably bringing the sheep down early would cause him problems so he wouldn't do it just for the sake of it.

I'm also coming round to the possibility that Aguirre wasn't really that bothered about what the boys were doing up there, as long as they did their jobs at the same time. If he was really a raging homophobe then surely he would have said something to Jack the first time, rather than just giving him the news about his uncle then leaving again?


Interesting take, NoReins.  I guess I am on the fence as to whether Jack knew or didn't know.  Your comments are certainly strong support to the possibility that Jack did know.

As to Agguire, I am sure he was quite disgusted by it all.  But he did seem more likely to pass it over in quiet.  He didn't seem to confront them openly about it.  I wonder if he was aware of such things as a distinct possibility.  After all, in the various discussions around BBM, many commentators have routinely said that such things did happen.  Jack probably had previous experience, and perhaps Agguire did have some also as far as his hired help were concerned...



Sunflower79

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2006, 08:52 AM »
Interesting ideas..I don't think he liked what they were doing up there with each other...he probally didn't like the fact that they weren't in his mind doing his thier job..I don't think he liked the fact that they were fooling around with each other either..

I do agree that I don't think Jack knew that Acquire caught them fooling around..he did seemed surprised though that there jobs were ending..Ennis on the other hand when told seemed really upset..about the job ending a month early and being out of pay..but I also wonder if he was really upset about that his time with Jack was coming to an end

Offline NoReins

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2006, 08:57 AM »
Ennis on the other hand when told seemed really upset..about the job ending a month early and being out of pay..but I also wonder if he was really upset about that his time with Jack was coming to an end

I don't think Ennis was bothered about the money at all - the money thing was just a cover for the real reason that he was upset. He couldn't tell Jack that he didn't want to leave him....so he made it seem like it was all about the cash. But if it had been, surely he would have taken the loan that Jack offered.....

Come to think of it, why didn't he take the loan that Jack offered? Even if it wasn't about the money, taking it would have been a guarantee of seeing Jack again.
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Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2006, 09:15 AM »
Ennis on the other hand when told seemed really upset..about the job ending a month early and being out of pay..but I also wonder if he was really upset about that his time with Jack was coming to an end

I don't think Ennis was bothered about the money at all - the money thing was just a cover for the real reason that he was upset. He couldn't tell Jack that he didn't want to leave him....so he made it seem like it was all about the cash. But if it had been, surely he would have taken the loan that Jack offered.....

Come to think of it, why didn't he take the loan that Jack offered? Even if it wasn't about the money, taking it would have been a guarantee of seeing Jack again.


Yes, I think Ennis was really upset because he did not want to have his time with Jack end so soon.

It is hard to see Ennis still in denial even at this stage.  He refuses the money (Jack's ruse to see him again, most likely) because he knew it was about seeing each other again.  He resists all of Jack's overtures in the farewell scene.  Ennis knew he loved Jack deeply.  But he was not ready to see it plainly by the light of day.  One shudders to think how Ennis would have reacted had he known that Aguirre knew all along...


Sunflower79

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2006, 09:21 AM »
"It is hard to see Ennis still in denial even at this stage.  He refuses the money (Jack's ruse to see him again, most likely) because he knew it was about seeing each other again.  He resists all of Jack's overtures in the farewell scene.  Ennis knew he loved Jack deeply.  But he was not ready to see it plainly by the light of day.  One shudders to think how Ennis would have reacted had he known that Aguirre knew all along..."


very good point..Ennis would have reacted differenly if he KNew that Aguirre knew..It would have been really bad..Using the money to hide his feelings makes alot of sense..he truly loved Jack and parting from him broke his heart..but he couldn't get the words out

Offline stacp

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2006, 12:49 PM »
Yes, I thought the same thing.

Remember the look on Aguirre's face when he left Jack in the scene on 'chopping wood'?  It certainly did not look like trust or admiration.  You could tell that Jack was quite puzzled over that look.  And what are we to make of Jack's look when Aguirre points his binoculars on Ennis way up in the mountains?

Why was Jack so nonchalant about leaving Brokeback when he announced the news to Ennis while taking down the tent?  Could he have suspected something similar to what we are now speculating upon?  My gut reaction is: no.  Jack must have not yet known that Aguirre knew.  But his nonchalance puzzles me.  Perhaps the key to this nonchalance is his willingness to to take things in stride: 'Let be. Let be.'







I thought Jack was so nonchalant about leaving BBM because he actually thought he and Ennis would be seeing each other again, maybe even regularly.  Maybe that's why Jack offerred him the loan--sure would be a good reason to see Ennis again.  Also, Jack says "You going to do this again next summer?" like he expects Ennis to say "yes."  I think Ennis partly refused the offer of money out of pride.  Ennis isn't the type to be beholding of anyone, and I think Ennis was also desperately trying to separate himself from Jack.  After all, he told Jack it was  "one shot thing" for the summer.  Little did Ennis know he'd fall so deeply in love with Jack.

As for Jack knowing Aguirre know,  Jack must have been suspicious.  Aguirre with those big binoculars, pointing them up at Ennis and giving Jack the disdainful looks.  I think Jack probably was suspicious that Aguirre had seen them, but, luckily, said nothing to Ennis.

Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2006, 01:39 PM »
Yes, I thought the same thing.

Remember the look on Aguirre's face when he left Jack in the scene on 'chopping wood'?  It certainly did not look like trust or admiration.  You could tell that Jack was quite puzzled over that look.  And what are we to make of Jack's look when Aguirre points his binoculars on Ennis way up in the mountains?

Why was Jack so nonchalant about leaving Brokeback when he announced the news to Ennis while taking down the tent?  Could he have suspected something similar to what we are now speculating upon?  My gut reaction is: no.  Jack must have not yet known that Aguirre knew.  But his nonchalance puzzles me.  Perhaps the key to this nonchalance is his willingness to to take things in stride: 'Let be. Let be.'







I thought Jack was so nonchalant about leaving BBM because he actually thought he and Ennis would be seeing each other again, maybe even regularly.  Maybe that's why Jack offerred him the loan--sure would be a good reason to see Ennis again.  Also, Jack says "You going to do this again next summer?" like he expects Ennis to say "yes."  I think Ennis partly refused the offer of money out of pride.  Ennis isn't the type to be beholding of anyone, and I think Ennis was also desperately trying to separate himself from Jack.  After all, he told Jack it was  "one shot thing" for the summer.  Little did Ennis know he'd fall so deeply in love with Jack.

As for Jack knowing Aguirre know,  Jack must have been suspicious.  Aguirre with those big binoculars, pointing them up at Ennis and giving Jack the disdainful looks.  I think Jack probably was suspicious that Aguirre had seen them, but, luckily, said nothing to Ennis.

Refusing the money out of pride is certainly in Ennis's character.  And I do agree that Ennis was desperately trying to separate himself from Jack, even though he already knew the strong love he had for Jack deep inside. 

I had always wondered how the scene between Aguirre and Jack would have played out: Aguirre telling Jack to bring the sheep down, Jack perhaps visibly disappointed, and Aguirre and him probably exchanging looks.  One can guess that Aguirre's would have been a look of contempt.  I wonder what Jack's would have been.  Bewilderment/surprise?  Perhaps he too was completely caught off guard.  Or perhaps Jack gave Aguirre a knowing look, similar to the one he gave Aguirre when the latter slyly 'outed' him the next summer...


Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2006, 03:57 PM »
Yes, I thought the same thing.

Remember the look on Aguirre's face when he left Jack in the scene on 'chopping wood'?  It certainly did not look like trust or admiration.  You could tell that Jack was quite puzzled over that look.  And what are we to make of Jack's look when Aguirre points his binoculars on Ennis way up in the mountains?

Why was Jack so nonchalant about leaving Brokeback when he announced the news to Ennis while taking down the tent?  Could he have suspected something similar to what we are now speculating upon?  My gut reaction is: no.  Jack must have not yet known that Aguirre knew.  But his nonchalance puzzles me.  Perhaps the key to this nonchalance is his willingness to to take things in stride: 'Let be. Let be.'







I thought Jack was so nonchalant about leaving BBM because he actually thought he and Ennis would be seeing each other again, maybe even regularly.  Maybe that's why Jack offerred him the loan--sure would be a good reason to see Ennis again.  Also, Jack says "You going to do this again next summer?" like he expects Ennis to say "yes."  I think Ennis partly refused the offer of money out of pride.  Ennis isn't the type to be beholding of anyone, and I think Ennis was also desperately trying to separate himself from Jack.  After all, he told Jack it was  "one shot thing" for the summer.  Little did Ennis know he'd fall so deeply in love with Jack.

As for Jack knowing Aguirre know,  Jack must have been suspicious.  Aguirre with those big binoculars, pointing them up at Ennis and giving Jack the disdainful looks.  I think Jack probably was suspicious that Aguirre had seen them, but, luckily, said nothing to Ennis.

Refusing the money out of pride is certainly in Ennis's character.  And I do agree that Ennis was desperately trying to separate himself from Jack, even though he already knew the strong love he had for Jack deep inside. 

I had always wondered how the scene between Aguirre and Jack would have played out: Aguirre telling Jack to bring the sheep down, Jack perhaps visibly disappointed, and Aguirre and him probably exchanging looks.  One can guess that Aguirre's would have been a look of contempt.  I wonder what Jack's would have been.  Bewilderment/surprise?  Perhaps he too was completely caught off guard.  Or perhaps Jack gave Aguirre a knowing look, similar to the one he gave Aguirre when the latter slyly 'outed' him the next summer...



Up until the scene where Jack goes back the following summer, I would've said that Jack knew that Aguirre knew, but the look on Jack's face when Aguirre says the line about "stemming the rose", looks to me like he's shocked and horrified to realise Aguirre knows, although maybe he suspected Aguirre knew, and it was just the shock of having it confirmed.

As for Aguirre making them come down early, I think it was probably a business decision rather than being entirely personal, although it might have played a part. He didn't get them to come down straight away after he caught them, it must have been at least a few weeks, cause enough time had passed for Jack's uncle to recover from pneumonia, and again, when Jack goes back, Aguirre says they weren't being paid to leave the dogs to babysit the sheep, it seems he's less concerned about what they were doing, than the fact they were doing it on his time.

As for Jack's nonchalance, I bet it wasn't there at first, but by the time Ennis came back he'd had time to take it all in, and probably convinced himself that their bond was too strong to be broken now, and they would stay together after they got down. Poor Jack... :( :\'( :\'(
And as for the loan, I thought Jack was as skint as Ennis was, so where was this money going to come from? Obviously just a way to get the money issue out of the way, so they could talk about what really mattered ;) But, yet again, poor Jack's plans never work out the way he intended :\'( :\'( :\'( 
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Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2006, 04:04 PM »
CrimsonSky. your positions are convincing, especially on the part about Aguirre making a business decision.  Money talks, I guess, louder than prejudice...

The only money Jack probably saved was from his work the previous summer.  Had he lent it to Ennis, there was no way he could have been able to go out to Texas on his own the next year when work from Aguirre ceased to be an option.

Yes, poor Jack. But at least he knew what he wanted more than anything else in the world.







Offline FlwrChild

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2006, 04:13 PM »
CrimsonSky,
you pretty much summed up my take on this exactly!

As to Jack being nonchalant about leaving early, I don't think he was. I think they just process and express things differently. And yes, he was probably also more hopeful that this wouldn't be the end for them. He always was. Sigh
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Offline CrimsonSky

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2006, 04:23 PM »
CrimsonSky. your positions are convincing, especially on the part about Aguirre making a business decision.  Money talks, I guess, louder than prejudice...

The only money Jack probably saved was from his work the previous summer.  Had he lent it to Ennis, there was no way he could have been able to go out to Texas on his own the next year when work from Aguirre ceased to be an option.

Yes, poor Jack. But at least he knew what he wanted more than anything else in the world.

Yes, that makes sense. I wouldn't have had Jack down as the type to save for a rainy day,( I thought if he had any money he might have spent it on a better pick-up ;)) but he'd probably planned to do a spot of rodeo-ing at some point, so would've needed to save money for that :)







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Offline amtamburo

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2006, 08:36 PM »
Hello there...

I have always thought from the first time I watched BBM that the reason for Jack's causalness about leaving was because he fully believed that he and Ennis would simply continue with their relationship after they left the mountain. Look at how perplexed he is by Ennis' moodiness about having to leave earlier then expected.

He was obviously not happy about being seperated from Ennis once he realized that was what was happening, but given that Ennis had said it was a "one shot thing" I think he didn't know how or even dare to ask Ennis if that still stood.(After all... not to long before that Ennis had socked him in the face for seemingly no reason! It's reasonable to assume that Jack thought he might do it again if he asked such a question.) I think that his mention of working there again next summer was his way of trying to find out what Ennis' intentions were about their relationship. Notice how crushed he looks when Ennis brings up his impending marriage, that was the confirmation that, as far as Ennis was concerned, their relationship was over. For me, the look on his face when he drove away, after looking at Ennis in the mirror, was heartbreaking... he just looks so hurt and resigned. Poor Jack!

Just my take on things! ::)







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Offline stacp

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2006, 10:38 PM »
Hello there...

I have always thought from the first time I watched BBM that the reason for Jack's causalness about leaving was because he fully believed that he and Ennis would simply continue with their relationship after they left the mountain. Look at how perplexed he is by Ennis' moodiness about having to leave earlier then expected.

He was obviously not happy about being seperated from Ennis once he realized that was what was happening, but given that Ennis had said it was a "one shot thing" I think he didn't know how or even dare to ask Ennis if that still stood.(After all... not to long before that Ennis had socked him in the face for seemingly no reason! It's reasonable to assume that Jack thought he might do it again if he asked such a question.) I think that his mention of working there again next summer was his way of trying to find out what Ennis' intentions were about their relationship. Notice how crushed he looks when Ennis brings up his impending marriage, that was the confirmation that, as far as Ennis was concerned, their relationship was over. For me, the look on his face when he drove away, after looking at Ennis in the mirror, was heartbreaking... he just looks so hurt and resigned. Poor Jack!

Just my take on things! ::)









Amtamburo, welcome!   #$#  Great post.  I agree with everything you said.  I really think Jack came away from BBM not realizing how much Ennis loved him.  Probably why he waited four years to contact Ennis. 

Offline amtamburo

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2006, 10:56 PM »
thanks so much for the Welcome Stacp.
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Offline donnaread

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2006, 12:26 PM »
Yes, I thought the same thing.

Remember the look on Aguirre's face when he left Jack in the scene on 'chopping wood'?  It certainly did not look like trust or admiration.  You could tell that Jack was quite puzzled over that look.  And what are we to make of Jack's look when Aguirre points his binoculars on Ennis way up in the mountains?

Why was Jack so nonchalant about leaving Brokeback when he announced the news to Ennis while taking down the tent?  Could he have suspected something similar to what we are now speculating upon?  My gut reaction is: no.  Jack must have not yet known that Aguirre knew.  But his nonchalance puzzles me.  Perhaps the key to this nonchalance is his willingness to to take things in stride: 'Let be. Let be.'






I don't think Jack was puzzled by the way Aguirre looked at him at all.  When he saw Aguirre looking up at Ennis on the mountain through his binoculars, I think he realized that Aguirre had seen them fooling around earlier.  He knew exactly why Aguirre gave him that look.  As to why he was so nonchalant about leaving...I think he had just had a little more time to get his emotions under control than Ennis did.  He had time to "compose" himself before Ennis rode into camp.  There was a lot of sadness in his face when he took his rope off the horse and looked at Ennis sitting alone in the meadow, before he went up to him and tried to lasoo him, to break the tension.  His apparent nonchalence was just a disguise to hide his real feelings.
This is the forest primeval.  The murmuring pines and the hemlocks, bearded with moss, and in garments green, indistinct in the twilight...but where are the hearts that beneath it leaped...

Offline NoReins

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2006, 12:35 PM »
I don't think Jack was puzzled by the way Aguirre looked at him at all.  When he saw Aguirre looking up at Ennis on the mountain through his binoculars, I think he realized that Aguirre had seen them fooling around earlier.  He knew exactly why Aguirre gave him that look.  As to why he was so nonchalant about leaving...I think he had just had a little more time to get his emotions under control than Ennis did.  He had time to "compose" himself before Ennis rode into camp.  There was a lot of sadness in his face when he took his rope off the horse and looked at Ennis sitting alone in the meadow, before he went up to him and tried to lasoo him, to break the tension.  His apparent nonchalence was just a disguise to hide his real feelings.

I think Jack looks sad from the moment that Ennis says no to the loan, maybe because he thought it was a sure way to say Ennis again. You're right that he looks really down just before he goes up to lasoo Ennis - he sees his fella looking so lonely and unhappy and just tries to do something to cheer him up. Typical Jack, really. His real feelings are clear, though - you can see them in his eyes as they ride down the mountain with the sheep (they both look so sad at that point) and then again when he asks Ennis if he's going to do this again next summer.
He will be eternally missed, but he will never be forgotten

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This award tonight would have humbly validated Heath's quiet determination to be truly accepted by you all here — his peers within an industry he so loved.

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Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2006, 01:13 PM »
I don't think Jack was puzzled by the way Aguirre looked at him at all.  When he saw Aguirre looking up at Ennis on the mountain through his binoculars, I think he realized that Aguirre had seen them fooling around earlier.  He knew exactly why Aguirre gave him that look.  As to why he was so nonchalant about leaving...I think he had just had a little more time to get his emotions under control than Ennis did.  He had time to "compose" himself before Ennis rode into camp.  There was a lot of sadness in his face when he took his rope off the horse and looked at Ennis sitting alone in the meadow, before he went up to him and tried to lasoo him, to break the tension.  His apparent nonchalence was just a disguise to hide his real feelings.

Hi Donna.  So you do believe that Jack knew that Agurirre knew.  I don't have any difficulty in your interpretation of that look on Jack's face when Aguirre was looking up at Ennis.

As NoReins, I agree about the sadness in his face.  But I also think there is a lot of compassion in Jack's face at that moment prior to the lasso scene.  You can tell that at that moment, he fell for Ennis.  It is as if he submerges his own feelings and puts himself in complete empathy with Ennis's torment and sadness.  Even at that early stage, you knew where the center of Jack's compass was.

 

Offline welshwitch

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2006, 03:50 PM »
Probably OT, but I like the idea of the compass. It made me think of Donne's poem - "Thy firmness makes my circle just/And makes me end where I began." Ennis is the centre for Jack, to which he always returns, and I think as they leave the mountain that's what he thinks - that this won't be the end. Jack's an optimist...and Jack's in love.

Offline tpe

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Re: Leaving brokeback (first summer)
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2006, 03:57 PM »
Probably OT, but I like the idea of the compass. It made me think of Donne's poem - "Thy firmness makes my circle just/And makes me end where I began." Ennis is the centre for Jack, to which he always returns, and I think as they leave the mountain that's what he thinks - that this won't be the end. Jack's an optimist...and Jack's in love.


Our two souls therefore, which are one, 
Though I must go, endure not yet 
A breach, but an expansion, 
Like gold to aery thinness beat. 

If they be two, they are two so                                 
As stiff twin compasses are two ; 
Thy soul, the fix'd foot, makes no show 
To move, but doth, if th' other do.