Author Topic: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying  (Read 129916 times)

Offline Rønnaug

  • Mod-ChickY brigade
  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 7546
  • Gender: Female
  • Eat the banana custard, or die!
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #300 on: Jan 20, 2007, 09:13 AM »
jacks_key, we don't know if it is the same one... it has been dicussed in some other thread here somewhere :)

but I think most of us don't think it is the same one.. it is smaller, like thinner than the one Ennis was carving, and also had a man on it
No matter how much jell-O you pour in the pool , you still can't walk on water

Offline stephan

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 4651
  • Gender: Male
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #301 on: Jan 20, 2007, 02:44 PM »
OT, but I just realized that the horse was the one Ennis had carved.  Why I didn't get that sooner, I have no idea.   %&)

There's another reason why I don't think it's the same one, jacks_key : if that horse had been one that Ennis carved, I think he would have reacted more when he saw it in Jack's room. In the film, it would seem that the wood carving has no significance for Ennis.

Offline carbyville

  • Huh?
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11181
  • Gender: Female
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #302 on: Jan 20, 2007, 05:19 PM »
There's another reason why I don't think it's the same one, jacks_key : if that horse had been one that Ennis carved, I think he would have reacted more when he saw it in Jack's room. In the film, it would seem that the wood carving has no significance for Ennis.

I don't think it is the same one either. First time I saw it I thought maybe it was, but the horse that Ennis picks up is much more detailed than the one Ennis carved.

Offline tizi17

  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 12110
  • Gender: Female
  • I love you Ennis, always did and always will..
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #303 on: Jan 20, 2007, 06:13 PM »
right... just came back from a film vision, and watched carefully after having been here..
in jack's room it seems to be a toy, not a pure wood carving, too refined and too many details (hat of the rider etc)

to shortly come back to ennis crying: we have seen him crying "often" though, as we have seen also jack. worst for me was after they parted, ennis in the alley... what a pain.

tizi
".. a love that dare not speak its name.." oscar wilde

Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #304 on: Jan 20, 2007, 07:37 PM »
Sorry to rain on your parade but the cowboy siting on a horse Ennis found in Jack's room has nothing to do with the horse one Ennis carved.  Ennis carved a plain horse.  The one he found in Jack's room is an old toy from Jack's childhood of a cowboy mounting a horse.  We are actually off topic and should go back to the scheduled program, huh?
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2007, 07:45 PM by chameau »
La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline jacks_key

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 2466
  • Gender: Female
  • We'll always have Brokeback...
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #305 on: Jan 20, 2007, 11:49 PM »
Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me.   :)
Heath Ledger: 1979-2008
Never enough time, never enough.

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #306 on: Jan 21, 2007, 01:53 AM »
Did he really let go? not tears streaming... and Jack was there... this is AFTER Jack dies


I would call that letting go, when he collapsed and Jackwas holding him.  Maybe we didn't see tears streaming, you're right, but still...  I just meant he was not holding it all in during that confrontation scene.  But then, I guess this thread is about just that one scene in the closet with the shirts -- sorry.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #307 on: Jan 21, 2007, 01:56 AM »
in the SS it says ".. and somehow, as a coat hanger is straigthened to open a locked car and then bent again to its original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news. nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved".

this has always intrigued me so much - trying to find out the meaning behind these lines...

tizi

I think this is for another thread...but you're right -- that line in the SS is so intriguing, and does tell us where things were left after the confrontation, after the DE flashback, and then Ennis drives away.  Well, doesn't exactly tell us, but gives us something to try to interpret.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline Magdalena

  • Just in case you wonder...
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 4722
  • Gender: Female
  • Feeling happy
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #308 on: Jan 21, 2007, 04:24 AM »
any good novel or drama should leave us asking some questions... I am sure happy i dont get it all at first :)
...Life is wonderful :)

Offline tizi17

  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 12110
  • Gender: Female
  • I love you Ennis, always did and always will..
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #309 on: Jan 21, 2007, 04:59 AM »
I think this is for another thread...but you're right -- that line in the SS is so intriguing, and does tell us where things were left after the confrontation, after the DE flashback, and then Ennis drives away.  Well, doesn't exactly tell us, but gives us something to try to interpret.

kathy

sorry cham - just a quick one  *o)      kathy which thread is dealing with this? thank you
tizi
".. a love that dare not speak its name.." oscar wilde

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #310 on: Jan 21, 2007, 10:26 PM »
any good novel or drama should leave us asking some questions... I am sure happy i dont get it all at first :)

Exactly, Magda -- that's what is so wonderful about BBM.  So much to learn about it and from it, and each of us with our own different minds and hearts.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #311 on: Jan 21, 2007, 10:28 PM »
sorry cham - just a quick one  *o)      kathy which thread is dealing with this? thank you
tizi

I'm not sure.  In Characters, Quotes & Scenes, is there not a thread for the Confrontation Scene?  I'll have to look, or you'll have to look.  Plus, it's interesting to interpret these things considering both the movie and the SS.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline LuvJackNasty

  • Mod-ChickY Brigade
  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 26177
  • Gender: Female
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #312 on: Jan 21, 2007, 11:15 PM »
There are about 20 different threads dealing with different aspects of the confrontation scene. This link is for the topics that have been discussed:

http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1504.msg19556#msg19556

The threads are in the first post under this header  :)

Final BBM
“What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger."

You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one ~ Imagine- J. Lennon

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #313 on: Jan 22, 2007, 12:09 AM »
There are about 20 different threads dealing with different aspects of the confrontation scene. This link is for the topics that have been discussed:

http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1504.msg19556#msg19556

The threads are in the first post under this header  :)

Final BBM


Thank you very much, LJN.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline tizi17

  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 12110
  • Gender: Female
  • I love you Ennis, always did and always will..
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #314 on: Jan 22, 2007, 03:57 AM »
There are about 20 different threads dealing with different aspects of the confrontation scene. This link is for the topics that have been discussed:

http://ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=1504.msg19556#msg19556

The threads are in the first post under this header  :)

Final BBM


thank you LJN!!
".. a love that dare not speak its name.." oscar wilde

Offline aintfoolin

  • Ennis
  • ******
  • Posts: 1623
  • Gender: Female
  • " You and him did'nt go up there to fish"...
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #315 on: Jan 22, 2007, 05:48 AM »
I just happened to watch "Jarhead" today and there are some short deleted scene footage in the preveiws section at the beginning of the DVD....including Ennis crying with the shirts. There are some scenes here I never saw in the film.  Ang, you MUST release your Director's cut of this film. YOU MUST! Your audience awaits. Has anyone else seen this?
..."yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream"...

Offline City Slickin' Cowboy

  • BBM Addict for Life.
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 26918
  • Gender: Male
  • It's A BBM Love Affair
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #316 on: Feb 01, 2007, 12:04 AM »
I just happened to watch "Jarhead" today and there are some short deleted scene footage in the preveiws section at the beginning of the DVD....including Ennis crying with the shirts. There are some scenes here I never saw in the film.  Ang, you MUST release your Director's cut of this film. YOU MUST! Your audience awaits. Has anyone else seen this?

Hear! Hear! :\'(
A reminder Brokies...there is no known cure for PBS.  It's merely managed.

Offline orangetruck

  • Justin +
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 5421
  • Gender: Male
  • Following Jack's happy trail is a trip.
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #317 on: Oct 27, 2008, 10:15 PM »
I'm about to die here just thinking about it  :'(

Same here. Wow.
"Cor cordium" - Oliver from Call Me By Your Name, a novel by Andre Aciman.

Offline orangetruck

  • Justin +
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 5421
  • Gender: Male
  • Following Jack's happy trail is a trip.
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #318 on: Oct 27, 2008, 10:23 PM »
Anyway, we did see him crack, in the "confrontation scene" -- I can't stand this anymore...crying in Jack's arms.  At least we saw him really let go that once.  I would just love to see what would have happened right after that, before Ennis drove off.

kathy

I have to say, me too. There's been times that I've wondered that. Even figuring it would only play as filler, it would be nice to have that extra bit to chew on, that little bit more insight into how Ennis projects his attachment and issues when he's got no choice and can't stifle his feelings..
"Cor cordium" - Oliver from Call Me By Your Name, a novel by Andre Aciman.

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #319 on: Oct 27, 2008, 10:32 PM »
I have to say, me too. There's been times that I've wondered that. Even figuring it would only play as filler, it would be nice to have that extra bit to chew on, that little bit more insight into how Ennis projects his attachment and issues when he's got no choice and can't stifle his feelings..

So right, OT.  Ennis having broken down like that, it would have been good to see what would follow that, between them.  But based on Jack's melancholy as Ennis drove away, and his flashing back to the DE, it doesn't sound like they really moved on to someplace new.  As the book said, "torqued back to where they had been, nothing resolved," etc...  Maybe Ennis just got all withdrawn after revealing himself like that.

Oh, I can hardly continue thinking about it at the moment -- just so sad.  I would have loved if that breakdown opened him up, but it doesn't seem so...

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline tizi17

  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 12110
  • Gender: Female
  • I love you Ennis, always did and always will..
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #320 on: Oct 28, 2008, 04:14 AM »
this was one of the two scenes that tortured me the most in the film (the other the divorce-mexico thing)..
but i must say that it tortured me even more in the story...

the sentence you quote here kathy.. :-\\

i still very often chew on this... HOW did they leave things, HOW did they part? with a simple "see you then" ?
"nothing changed"... so jack still wanting him?
"nothing resolved" ... ennis still denying his love for jack..

i know, both in OS and film the "dozy embrace" puts a link to it...

but it has never been enough for me...  :\'(
".. a love that dare not speak its name.." oscar wilde

Offline orangetruck

  • Justin +
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 5421
  • Gender: Male
  • Following Jack's happy trail is a trip.
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #321 on: Oct 28, 2008, 06:02 AM »
So right, OT.  Ennis having broken down like that, it would have been good to see what would follow that, between them.  But based on Jack's melancholy as Ennis drove away, and his flashing back to the DE, it doesn't sound like they really moved on to someplace new.  As the book said, "torqued back to where they had been, nothing resolved," etc...  Maybe Ennis just got all withdrawn after revealing himself like that.

Oh, I can hardly continue thinking about it at the moment -- just so sad.  I would have loved if that breakdown opened him up, but it doesn't seem so...

kathy

I'm so with you there, Kathy  :ghug:


this was one of the two scenes that tortured me the most in the film (the other the divorce-mexico thing)..
but i must say that it tortured me even more in the story...

the sentence you quote here kathy.. :-\\

i still very often chew on this... HOW did they leave things, HOW did they part? with a simple "see you then" ?
"nothing changed"... so jack still wanting him?
"nothing resolved" ... ennis still denying his love for jack..

i know, both in OS and film the "dozy embrace" puts a link to it...

but it has never been enough for me...  :\'(

tizi, I feel what you're saying. These scenes, no matter how they're spliced, know just how to ache inside someone. 

I know it's bitter-bittersweet, but at least they had that dozy, personal, romantic embrace where everything against them shattered just so their souls could touch. That dinky moment without the pretense of fear stays with them forever, even when it wasn't their foreground :ghug:
"Cor cordium" - Oliver from Call Me By Your Name, a novel by Andre Aciman.

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #322 on: Oct 28, 2008, 08:18 AM »
I have to say, me too. There's been times that I've wondered that. Even figuring it would only play as filler, it would be nice to have that extra bit to chew on, that little bit more insight into how Ennis projects his attachment and issues when he's got no choice and can't stifle his feelings..

So right, OT.  Ennis having broken down like that, it would have been good to see what would follow that, between them.  But based on Jack's melancholy as Ennis drove away, and his flashing back to the DE, it doesn't sound like they really moved on to someplace new.  As the book said, "torqued back to where they had been, nothing resolved," etc...  Maybe Ennis just got all withdrawn after revealing himself like that.

Oh, I can hardly continue thinking about it at the moment -- just so sad.  I would have loved if that breakdown opened him up, but it doesn't seem so...

kathy

I can't recall the exact lines in the book just now, but didn't the book use the word "almost" when it described the torquing back?  Kathy, did you quote this exactly?  If yes, then I am surprised that my impression all along was that there was a small but measureable change...

 

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #323 on: Oct 28, 2008, 08:21 AM »
this was one of the two scenes that tortured me the most in the film (the other the divorce-mexico thing)..
but i must say that it tortured me even more in the story...

the sentence you quote here kathy.. :-\\

i still very often chew on this... HOW did they leave things, HOW did they part? with a simple "see you then" ?
"nothing changed"... so jack still wanting him?
"nothing resolved" ... ennis still denying his love for jack..

i know, both in OS and film the "dozy embrace" puts a link to it...

but it has never been enough for me...  :\'(

It IS interesting that we really don't see how exactly they parted in the last confrontation.  Perhaps this was best, as I think it would have been too difficult to get it right -- especially after the juxtaposition with the Dozy Embrace...


Offline chameau

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 28148
  • Gender: Male
  • Miss ya little darlin'
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #324 on: Oct 28, 2008, 07:02 PM »
If you don't mind to come back to the specific cut scene we discuss on this topic, this link to Youtube is still good, you'll have to be patient and wait until the very end of the video.

In case anyone was like me and couldn't see it in the previous links, here is the trailer from youtube:



(not the greatest quality, but it's there)

 ^f^

I am currently uploading this (very short) scene to livevideo and will post the link once it becomes available, it's still pending approval.

La dictature c'est ''ferme ta geule'', la démocratie c'est ''cause toujours''
 Jean-Louis Barrault

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #325 on: Oct 28, 2008, 10:47 PM »
I can't recall the exact lines in the book just now, but didn't the book use the word "almost" when it described the torquing back?  Kathy, did you quote this exactly?  If yes, then I am surprised that my impression all along was that there was a small but measureable change...


No, Thomas, I didn't quote it verbatim, just from memory.  Here it is.  (Isn't it funny when things like this happen:  I opened the book to the exact page!)

Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable--admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears--rose around them.  Ennis stood as if heart-shot, face gray and deep-lined, grimacing, eyes screwed shut, fists clenched, legs caving, hit the ground on his knees.

"Jesus," said Jack.  "Ennis?"  But before he was out of the truck, trying to guess if it was heart attack or the overflow of an incendiary rage, Ennis was back on his feet and somehow, as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car and then bent again to its original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news.  Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved.


So you are correct about "almost."  But in my mind, the "Nothing ended..." line always seemed to override the torquing things almost to where they had been.  And anyway, what exactly is meant by "where they had been"?  Had been when exactly?

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline ksxks

  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 11571
  • Gender: Female
  • brokeback got us good
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #326 on: Oct 28, 2008, 10:49 PM »
It IS interesting that we really don't see how exactly they parted in the last confrontation.  Perhaps this was best, as I think it would have been too difficult to get it right -- especially after the juxtaposition with the Dozy Embrace...


I think so also.  If we'd had some kind of resolution shown then, it would have changed the tone of all that followed, one way or another.

kathy
They were respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none had been expected.

Offline tizi17

  • Mod Squad
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 12110
  • Gender: Female
  • I love you Ennis, always did and always will..
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #327 on: Oct 29, 2008, 04:30 AM »
I think so also.  If we'd had some kind of resolution shown then, it would have changed the tone of all that followed, one way or another.

kathy

right.. the resolution is found in ennis hugging the shirts...
yes, i still suffer in that scene..
".. a love that dare not speak its name.." oscar wilde

Offline tpe

  • Moderator
  • Jack + Ennis
  • ***
  • Posts: 96691
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #328 on: Oct 29, 2008, 07:41 AM »
No, Thomas, I didn't quote it verbatim, just from memory.  Here it is.  (Isn't it funny when things like this happen:  I opened the book to the exact page!)

Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable--admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears--rose around them.  Ennis stood as if heart-shot, face gray and deep-lined, grimacing, eyes screwed shut, fists clenched, legs caving, hit the ground on his knees.

"Jesus," said Jack.  "Ennis?"  But before he was out of the truck, trying to guess if it was heart attack or the overflow of an incendiary rage, Ennis was back on his feet and somehow, as a coat hanger is straightened to open a locked car and then bent again to its original shape, they torqued things almost to where they had been, for what they'd said was no news.  Nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved.


So you are correct about "almost."  But in my mind, the "Nothing ended..." line always seemed to override the torquing things almost to where they had been.  And anyway, what exactly is meant by "where they had been"?  Had been when exactly?

kathy

Yes, perhaps it was too little too late, as they usually say.  Not too late for Ennis, thank God, but too later for Jack nonetheless. 

And yes, the primary feeling one gets is a sense of overwhelming statis, even though there is a hint of slight movement in the word "almost".

Besides, "almost" cound imply a step BACKWARD as much as a step forward...


Offline orangetruck

  • Justin +
  • Jack + Ennis
  • *
  • Posts: 5421
  • Gender: Male
  • Following Jack's happy trail is a trip.
Re: Deleted scenes-Ennis crying
« Reply #329 on: Oct 29, 2008, 07:45 AM »
right.. the resolution is found in ennis hugging the shirts...
yes, i still suffer in that scene..

Fo' sho!  ;)

All the more that I want the deleted scene.

Man oh man, just tonight I was thinking and got all curious again about the "Well since we're gonna start workin' together, I reckon we oughta start drinkin' together" scene. I really would like to see it. The others too, but...

There's something about mary! Ennis' crying face hidden in Jack's embrace to the ground. I think it'd be rich, as an extra scene, to see Ennis recover from one breakdown. To see what he radiates as his tears dry, maybe especially at this (st)age. It's kind of intriguing to me, given Ennis had never been confronted like this where the involuntary mechanisms, and feelings he didn't want to feel, but does, were no body's fault but his own. All the frantic voices in his head that had always kept him going straight as an arrow were silenced because none had ever even whispered the emotion he has in this scene. He must have felt vulnerable as roadkill, for it was brutally parallel his memory of Earl, so fear was a relevant emotion. He'd crumble some and eventually decide to let Jack know he was ready if not too late that season. This is what he does in the movie of course. Too late.

But this brings me to the absence of I-love-yous. Ennis let himself barely slide past FC. I think if the term 'love' had been mouthed, it would have been time to quit right then, and there'd be nothing in the future; it would have probably brought back his dad's voice, hand clenched into his left shoulder... around his neck. In a ditch. The end.

Holding onto Jack and forced to stare at love death.  :\'( - - IMO, FC is such a facet of their summer of '63 when, again, they had to part. Ennis breaks down but his face again fades from our view, in silhouette before we can really see his tears: what color were they. what did they say. do they tickle as they trickle; the transitional facial expression between his brokedown world and the virtual one he'd been taught, is what I'm left to ponder. Not necessary to the plot, I know, but it definitely stimulates my curiosity: Maybe it's only a few seconds, but what happens as Ennis' tears dry? What happens as he recovers, what's he do, and what is he feeling most prominently while he's in this transition, this momentary lapse?

Fear? Love?
... Lear? Fove?
 :P

For instance, we get a look at Jack in this fashion as he trucks it outta Ennis' place, crying, composing himself at a dark Mexico pitstop on the way to the straight life. Naturally, I wanna see Ennis drive down that road as well. He's generally a very sufficiently animated character. So we only need a couple more seconds!
                                                          *COUGHdirectorscutCOUGH*  (^)  $)

The answers may be obvious according to the individual, but some of us want the (other) visual too! The little snippet of a clip where Ennis emotes us the answers! PLEASE - - THE DELETED SCENES!  ^*)
 :)
"Cor cordium" - Oliver from Call Me By Your Name, a novel by Andre Aciman.