Author Topic: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance  (Read 9733 times)

Offline Sitaram

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Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« on: Jan 23, 2006, 09:43 PM »
The scene at the end of the movie, with the mailbox (male) with 17 on one side, and a blank slate (question mark/future) on the other side might have some significance.  Someone pointed out that the 17 represents the number of years of their relationship.  But, this is the first time that Ennis has an address other than General Delivery.   Perhaps this is far fetched.  I was reading the nail polish thread today. Then I fell asleep for a while. When I woke up, I had this idea about the mail box.

I wonder if the "Jack, I swear.." could be a form of "coming out". Namely, if I find another person, another love, I swear I will do things right. I will be honest with society and with myself about my orientation. 

He straightens up the picture postcard of Brokeback.  Perhaps it is a symbol of adjusting his outlook... and .. .hey, it is in a closet.  I just thought of that!

I was looking at the story today, and it opens with a mention of the breeze causing the shirts to sway.  As the short story opens, it begins where it ends.  The closet door has to be open for the breeze to move the shirts.
« Last Edit: Jan 23, 2006, 10:13 PM by Sitaram »
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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #1 on: Jan 24, 2006, 11:35 AM »
sitaram,

i think you read my other posting about 17.  i think it had to do with the 17 years of actual realtionship since the reuinion.

In the short story the shirts/post card appear to be hanging outside everyone to see.  Am I wrong?  See what Annie wrote below.  Is the movie assuming it was in the closet becuase Ennis is still in the closet.  Small details like these bothers me because it changes the prospective of the short story.  In the opening, Annie mentions that the shirts were moving in the wind slightly in the trailer.  So I assumed it was hanging outside.

"When it came—thirty cents—he pinned it up in his trailer, brass-headed tack in each corner. Below it he drove a nail and on the nail he hung a wire hanger and the two old shirts suspended from it. He stepped back and looked at the ensemble through a few stinging tears."

Anny ideas...

Offline tpe

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #2 on: Jan 24, 2006, 11:43 AM »
It has been suggested in a different thread that there are 17 letters in 'Brokeback Mountain'.

Offline Kindred

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #3 on: Jan 24, 2006, 12:16 PM »
Here's a stretch of an interpretation:

In numerology, the numbers are added together, thus 17 = 1+7 = 8

In the Chinese culture, the number 8 is a very powerful symbol.  In the Chinese language, the pronunciation of the word sounds like the word for luck and prosperity.  Thus, the culture being very superstitious, has many customs revolving around the number.  For example, a wedding banquet traditionally has 8 courses, there is a famous dessert called Eight Treasure Rice, etc.

I really don't know the significance of the number 17.  However, knowing the painstaking details put into the movie, I don't doubt that Ang Lee intentionally chose the number.


Offline honestjoe1959

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #4 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:35 AM »
the clock in jack's room stopped at 8:45
if we add 8+4+5 we get 17
not sure if this is just coincidence.

Offline Sitaram

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #5 on: Jan 30, 2006, 06:18 AM »
the clock in jack's room stopped at 8:45
if we add 8+4+5 we get 17
not sure if this is just coincidence.

Wow! Neat!  Nice observation! The possiblilities seem endless.
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Offline manila_rocks

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance *possible spoiler*
« Reply #6 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:22 PM »
Any of the possibilities mentioned in the above postings are possible.

Bottom line.  Ennis knew it didn't matter what numbers he put on the mailbox.  Jack was dead.  He would receive no more cards from Jack.

My theory is simply that Ennis desperately wanted to return to age 17 when his life was happier and less marred by complex relationships.

His longing to return to 17 is the answer.


Offline manila_rocks

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #7 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:28 PM »
I also remember a song, "At Seventeen",  that went to number one in America. 

Janis Ian's voice clearly explained "at seventeen I learned the truth"  "that love was meant for high school queens with clear skin smiles who married young and then retired".

This song, based upon my research, came out in the mid 70's.  Simultaneous to Jack's posting of the number 17! 

Offline tpe

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance *possible spoiler*
« Reply #8 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:33 PM »
Any of the possibilities mentioned in the above postings are possible.

Bottom line.  Ennis knew it didn't matter what numbers he put on the mailbox.  Jack was dead.  He would receive no more cards from Jack.

My theory is simply that Ennis desperately wanted to return to age 17 when his life was happier and less marred by complex relationships.

His longing to return to 17 is the answer.



manila_rocks, I think this is slightly over the top. ;)

Offline tpe

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #9 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:35 PM »
I also remember a song, "At Seventeen",  that went to number one in America. 

Janis Ian's voice clearly explained "at seventeen I learned the truth"  "that love was meant for high school queens with clear skin smiles who married young and then retired".

This song, based upon my research, came out in the mid 70's.  Simultaneous to Jack's posting of the number 17! 

Did you mean Ennis posting the number 17?  But that happened in the 80's.  Still, good try. :)

Offline manila_rocks

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #10 on: Jan 30, 2006, 01:40 PM »
tpe. Your point is well taken.  However, I think it possible that Ennis remained fixated on Janis' song for at least one decade.


Offline 8220724

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #11 on: Jan 30, 2006, 02:33 PM »
Hi,

If any of you speaks Chinese/Mandarin, the sounds of 1 & 7 in Chinese mean ##together##.  Since the director speaks Chinese, maybe that's why they picked up 1 & 7. 

Someone here in Taiwan also noticed something very interesting.  The number on the car plate of Ennis daughter is 228.  And 228 happens to be the name a famous gay spot(park) here in Taipei......since the director is Taiwanese, could this be the reason for the plate number?  I am really not sure about it.  But I heard people saying it here ^^

Ryan

Offline tpe

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #12 on: Jan 30, 2006, 02:44 PM »
Hi,

If any of you speaks Chinese/Mandarin, the sounds of 1 & 7 in Chinese mean ##together##.  Since the director speaks Chinese, maybe that's why they picked up 1 & 7. 

Someone here in Taiwan also noticed something very interesting.  The number on the car plate of Ennis daughter is 228.  And 228 happens to be the name a famous gay spot(park) here in Taipei......since the director is Taiwanese, could this be the reason for the plate number?  I am really not sure about it.  But I heard people saying it here ^^

Ryan

Very intersting indeed!  Thanks Ryan.

Offline *Froggy*

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #13 on: Jan 30, 2006, 03:32 PM »
Hi,

If any of you speaks Chinese/Mandarin, the sounds of 1 & 7 in Chinese mean ##together##.  Since the director speaks Chinese, maybe that's why they picked up 1 & 7. 

Someone here in Taiwan also noticed something very interesting.  The number on the car plate of Ennis daughter is 228.  And 228 happens to be the name a famous gay spot(park) here in Taipei......since the director is Taiwanese, could this be the reason for the plate number?  I am really not sure about it.  But I heard people saying it here ^^

Ryan

Thankx ryan...that's really interesting! ;)
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Offline gjz24

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #14 on: Feb 03, 2006, 10:34 AM »
I am thinking the date they met is Jun. 17th. 1963. and "17" make tinking about"I am 17 again". I don't know you guys. the second day after viewing the movie, I wanted to be a better person. and I exactly had the feeling I am 17 again.

JerBear418720

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #15 on: Feb 03, 2006, 11:59 AM »
I am thinking the date they met is Jun. 17th. 1963. and "17" make tinking about"I am 17 again". I don't know you guys. the second day after viewing the movie, I wanted to be a better person. and I exactly had the feeling I am 17 again.

This gives me the willies.  My birthday is June 17!

Offline Ang's proud compatriot

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #16 on: Feb 05, 2006, 08:40 AM »

Someone here in Taiwan also noticed something very interesting.  The number on the car plate of Ennis daughter is 228.  And 228 happens to be the name a famous gay spot(park) here in Taipei......since the director is Taiwanese, could this be the reason for the plate number?  I am really not sure about it.  But I heard people saying it here ^^

Ryan

When I watched it for the second time I paid extra attention to the car plate number in question.  I was certain it was "Z28" rather than "228".

Offline bbmlover

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #17 on: Feb 05, 2006, 08:54 AM »
the clock in jack's room stopped at 8:45
if we add 8+4+5 we get 17
not sure if this is just coincidence.

damn it....... i missed this.
Great detail.
Ok i'am keeping £5 aside for another view.

Offline cybernaut

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #18 on: Feb 05, 2006, 10:42 AM »
I am thinking the date they met is Jun. 17th. 1963. and "17" make tinking about"I am 17 again". I don't know you guys. the second day after viewing the movie, I wanted to be a better person. and I exactly had the feeling I am 17 again.

This gives me the willies.  My birthday is June 17!

Stop giving me goosebumps! My birthday is Nov 17th!!  :D
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Offline bbmlover

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #19 on: Feb 05, 2006, 04:23 PM »
I am thinking the date they met is Jun. 17th. 1963. and "17" make tinking about"I am 17 again". I don't know you guys. the second day after viewing the movie, I wanted to be a better person. and I exactly had the feeling I am 17 again.

This gives me the willies.  My birthday is June 17!

Stop giving me goosebumps! My birthday is Nov 17th!!  :D

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. I'am just enjoying the post.

Offline francis.shim

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #20 on: Feb 15, 2006, 06:08 PM »
Howdy.

One interesting thread, this it...

17 on the mailbox was bothering me too... I read everyone's replies and I like them, but it still bothers me so I thought I would let you guys know what I have so far...

A mailbox is sort of like an address saying "Here I am" to the public so if the number 17 has some kind of significance, it would be like a public persona for Ennis.  Ennis is a very private individual and although we do not know for sure if he was able to "choose" the number... it is still possible that 17 ought to reflect Ennis and his situation in some way.  I liked that "Brokeback Mountain" has exactly 17 letters, so it may be a pretty good guess... but I could not help seeing that 17 is a prime number, a "lonely" number and is a number just before 18, a fairly common age of adulthood and consent.  To me, it was almost like 17 says "before the age of adulthood when I am completely mature"... Ennis and Jack had a love that was taken away before Ennis could truly commit to Jack.  A love that will never grow old because it was interrupted before completion.

I don't know... maybe it is just my emotions running wild, but it was a thought.

Peace,
Frank (aka Jack Nasty)

Offline n061857

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Re: Mail Box & 17 - possible significance
« Reply #21 on: Mar 24, 2006, 09:05 AM »
I am thinking the date they met is Jun. 17th. 1963. and "17" make tinking about"I am 17 again". I don't know you guys. the second day after viewing the movie, I wanted to be a better person. and I exactly had the feeling I am 17 again.

How do we know they met on June 17th?  I don't remember that in the story or the movie?

Some very interesting and informative posts here on the significance of the number 17.  Thanks.

On a literal level I like the fact that he is putting a number on a mailbox, because it shows he has a home.  It is more hopeful.  In the story he has just lost another job, has to move again, is talking about moving in with his daughter and is urinating in the sink.  I am glad to see his prospects look better in the movie.
« Last Edit: Mar 25, 2006, 02:34 PM by n061857 »